Canadian Heritage Committee on May 6th, 2013

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Can I challenge this, sir?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Yes, you can challenge the chair.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I would really like to challenge this because I think it's very important. I like what Monsieur Maisonneuve has brought to us today. In order to study our history, we have to bring in the people who are right in the middle of this. I can't think of someone greater who has more credentials documented both on film and everywhere than Lieutenant-General, Senator Roméo Dallaire. I'm astounded.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Simms is challenging the ruling of the chair. It's just on the advice of the clerk that the motion is out of order.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Can I get a recorded vote, sir?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Sure. but your motion is out of order. So this isn't on the motion, it would be on your challenge to the chair. We have a speaker's list.

Mr. Cash.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and with the greatest respect to our guests here, first of all, I'm not sure if we can divulge what exactly was discussed during an in-camera meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

There's a lot that we can't talk about in an open session. On the challenge of the chair, it's just basically that we vote whether to uphold my ruling. We don't debate it or discuss it.

Mr. Simms has challenged my ruling that your motion is inadmissible. It's not that the subject can never come up again.

You've heard Mr. Simms has challenged the chair.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

I guess we can't debate on this particular issue, we have to go to a vote first. So let's do the vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

On the challenge to the chair, those who agree that the chair's decision be sustained? Those opposed?

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I'd like a recorded vote, sir.

(Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 6; nays 5)

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

We have Mr. Calandra on a point of order.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. Chair, we would have no problem entertaining the motion. I guess that's one of the difficulties when motions are table-dropped without sufficient notice, but we would have no problem entertaining this motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

That's a point of debate. As I mentioned in my ruling, it has nothing to do with the substance of the matter. It's that the motion is out of order, and there's not much I can do about that.

Mr. Simms, you have 15 seconds left.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Suffice it to say, I want to wish you all the best, especially in documenting your material on film, which would be accessible on the Internet. I adore these concerts in the park that you're recreating. I think that's going to be a fantastic recreation.

[LGen Michel Maisonneuve]

I hope you're there.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

The challenge is on so I have to be there now.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Now we're into five-minute rounds.

Mr. Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Thank you very much for the opportunity, Mr. Chair.

First, I want express my gratitude to General Maisonneuve and Mr. Gregory for the work they're doing. I'm glad you're here today. It began with a quick phone call. I'm glad we can get you this exposure.

Chair, I would hope that we can forward the minutes of this portion of the meeting to the Dominion Institute, which is currently doing a digital history of individual lives in the Second World War. They may see this battle as one that would be of specific interest to record digitally. Of course that would be their decision, but we can get them this testimony that I'm certain will interest them greatly.

I'm so glad you're doing this project. I know about the Italian campaign, to the degree that one of my sons is named Lucian, after Lucian Truscott. I love my son and I love the name, but now I have almost a little regret, because I should have been able to find a Canadian general who drove in this campaign as well. Lucian Truscott's life was very impressive and he was a general's general to his soldiers, and that was one of the reasons why I wanted to give my son that name.

Now we take a look at this campaign with 560 who died, 23,000 who were wounded, and you said three ships were sunk. Were they sunk by enemy artillery on the way in?

[Steve Gregory]

They were sunk by U-boats.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Is the death toll on those ships part of the 560?

[Steve Gregory]

There were 52 who died, and yes, it is.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

General, in this campaign you mentioned 45 degrees a couple of times. I walked to work today and was perspiring just with the sun we have today. What would it have been like in a tank in that battle?

[LGen Michel Maisonneuve]

It would have been even worse than outside, because in those days the tanks weren't like the ones I served in, the kind we have today.

I'm a tanker myself, and nowadays we have air conditioning in tanks, which is really required in these hot climates. It would have been even hotter, and I dare say that everything was hot. The water you drank, the food you ate, you wouldn't even need to heat it, it would have been heated already.

Very often they would put their cans of meat on the engines, and that would warm them. It was very uncomfortable. You would have to drink gallons of water every day. First, you would have to acclimatize yourself to these conditions. Our troops in Afghanistan now, and those who fought there during the combat phase, went through the same very difficult conditions.

The weariness at the end of the day is unbelievable. You have the stress of the enemy, you're extremely tired, and you're sweating profusely. Guys would lose many pounds. If you want to lose weight, it's one way of doing it. It's very difficult.