Canadian Heritage Committee on May 6th, 2013

[LGen Michel Maisonneuve]

Mr. Nantel, I would like to add something about the Royal Canadian Legion.

You talked about people's involvement. Certainly, we would have liked to bring over some of these veterans who fought, but the problem is that they are 90 years old, and the conditions I was talking about earlier, namely 45 degrees Celsius temperatures, the heat and so on, make it nearly impossible. Some of them are still in good health. We held fundraisers and galas to honour them in Canada. Steve organized one last month in Toronto. There was also one last year in June, in Montreal. There were two or three veterans who had fought in Sicily. We try to honour them and the Royal Canadian Legions are part of that.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Simms, you have seven minutes.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I want to thank our guests for coming.

There's a gentleman who lived in my riding who helped liberate France. He received the highest honour and it was a very moving ceremony. The ambassador of France came to Newfoundland and Labrador. The gentleman's name was Frank Borland, but we all called him “Jiggs” Borland for several reasons. I won't go into that because I only have a few minutes. He was an entertaining individual to say the least. He had the most vivid stories of the liberation of France. They were just phenomenal.

About a year before he died I had discussions with a company that was going to do a documentary. We were going to take him to France, the town he liberated, and document this with a camera. It would just be a documentary from his point of view. We never got that opportunity and we feel it's probably one of the—it's hard to describe—lost treasures. That's what it was.

He told his stories to other soldiers and to people like me. I was a cadet at the time. But people in a classroom, or people looking at this study.... One of the good aspects of this study is that we can see illustrations of this and best practices. It's unfortunate he never got that chance.

You mentioned film and documentaries. I think it's probably one of the best ways we have today because it's so accessible. You don't have to tune in at nine o'clock Sunday night, 9:30 in Newfoundland, and watch it. I mean you can actually download it because it's completely accessible.

Where is that right now? In this case, like with Operation Husky, you're saying this took place like the first concert in the theatre of war.

[Steve Gregory]

We want to tell them that story. Just imagine, the third brigade was comprised of the western regiments, specifically the Seaforth Highlanders. They were badly mauled on a hill in Nissoria on the 29th. They pulled them out of the battle. They formed up their pipe band in the main piazza of the square in Agira and they played a concert. They played Caber Feidh, mocking their enemy as they retreated. Peter Stursberg of the CBC was there and recorded this on one disc. They shipped that back and it was broadcast only a couple of days later, and picked up by the BBC. We are going to recreate that concert.

[LGen Michel Maisonneuve]

The Seaforth Highlanders are going to be back there to do that—the same regiment.

[Steve Gregory]

We have a couple of holes in our project. The biggest hole is attracting the CBC and Radio-Canada. Can you imagine their being there to record, 70 years to the day, the same concert? We have the chance—one time only. The British ambassador and the American ambassador have told us that they are doing nothing for Sicily—nothing; it's ours. We have worked on this for seven years.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Is it just a lack of resources for them, when they say these things?

[LGen Michel Maisonneuve]

It's a lack of interest.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Oh, is it really?

[LGen Michel Maisonneuve]

Yes.

[Steve Gregory]

It's a lack of interest.

[LGen Michel Maisonneuve]

When you compare it with the rest of Italy.... That was fighting up the boot. It was incredibly difficult. Sicily, as I said, is not that significant for them. So they're not doing anything specifically for Sicily.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I always thought, through many episodes in history, that a lot of it was overlooked. But we always felt there weren't enough resources to be able to tell the story.

In the area I'm from, Beaumont-Hamel is a story that could be done on film and documented that way.

[Steve Gregory]

Yes, absolutely.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I think it is the most tangible, accessible way, even for schools. This is why we're here. We're talking about history courses and the like. I find that part very interesting. But right now, do you think most of the resources are going to different types of media?

[Steve Gregory]

I can only tell you what we're trying to produce. We have spent money on Canadian Geographic to get it into the hands of 88,000 students and teachers. We will have 50,000 words.

It's currently being translated. That's really a first, because in French, it's even less so. It's interesting because in the Royal 22nd Regiment alone, 49 people died.

They had 49 dead.

Everyone across the country participated in this. I can tell you that we're going to leave a decent amount of printed material and web-based material. TLN will do a 90-minute documentary in Italian. We're going to be sharing our film with them. As I said, we have funded the film crew.

We just don't have enough money yet, and we're hoping—

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Is there an idea of a co-production, or something like that?

[Steve Gregory]

In fact, they're going to be co-producing. We're going to be giving them the film and sharing some of the cost of the resources.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I find this very inspiring, in the sense that there are a lot of battles that don't get much attention, such as Beaumont-Hamel and others.

The other aspect of it is this. You're a retired lieutenant-general; you're very active as well. I find it very inspiring that more of our retired military, especially generals and colonels—the executive—are becoming more involved.

One thing that tends to be overlooked in this country is this subject, but also peacekeeping and what we have done in peacekeeping. We've done such phenomenal things around the world for so many years, although it's not documented enough for us to see, in some cases.

One such case is that of my colleague Roméo Dallaire, as I'm sure you would agree.

I thank you for being here today and doing this.

But I would like to move a motion, sir, if I may, about peacekeeping and how we can, in this study, talk about not just this but also the elements of peacekeeping and what we have done as peacekeepers with NATO during the Cold War.

I'd like to move to invite my colleague and honourable friend, retired Lieutenant-General Roméo Dallaire.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Simms has a motion....

Just one second.

Mr. Simms, we can discuss this matter at committee business. But we have dealt with this issue as a committee; therefore, your motion is inadmissible.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I don't think so, because—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

That's the ruling of the chair.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Let me interject on a point of order.

What we talked about was the juxtaposition, since you brought it up, of Lieutenant-General Roméo Dallaire with Vimy Ridge. That was my thing.

This time, thanks to the testimony that I've heard here and through other material, I want to talk about peacekeeping. I can't think of any individual....

It didn't succeed last time because there was no direct connection to Vimy Ridge. I certainly feel that there's a connection here with our efforts in peacekeeping for the 50 years. Even though the person in particular, Roméo Dallaire, remains the same, the subject has changed. It's not Vimy Ridge now; it's peacekeeping. I think Roméo Dallaire is a national hero.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Simms, there's no argument there, but your motion is out of order so we have to move on. I think Mr. Simms is out of time.