Canadian Heritage Committee on June 5th, 2013

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

I would bring it on to Bill C-49—

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. O'Neill was quite clear that he sees the minister at events that we're all at. Go figure: they might actually talk to each other at an event where they come across each other.

Mr. O'Neill is not here to discuss his datebook. Could we bring it back to BillC-49 just for 30 seconds. If they have no more question for Mr. O'Neill with respect to Bill C-49 then let's move on. We have a lot of questions for the president and we could get some value out of this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Cash, you have 33 seconds.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

This is about how the decisions were made. It's about transparency. It's about the independence of the museum. I think they are appropriate questions to ask.

I'm still unclear about what the answer is. You speak with him on the phone. You exchange e-mails sometimes. Sometimes you meet formally. In aggregate, how often is that?

[Mark O'Neill]

I would not be able to tell you that, Mr. Cash. The most I see the minister is socially at exhibition openings and cultural events.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

I heard you say that already. But you do speak on the phone with him often?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Cash—

[Mark O'Neill]

No, I don't speak on the phone often to Minister Moore.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Cash.

Next we have Mr. Simms for seven minutes.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

There's quite a list of events here that you'd like to illustrate as part of the Canadian story. It seems like we are brimming over with all kinds of events that we could put out there. I'm not saying you are being nefarious in any way, shape, or form; I'm just saying it's quite a bit.

When you and the minister spoke were these some of the ideas that you fleshed out of what you wanted to display, or was there something else?

[Mark O'Neill]

I've never had any discussion with the minister about the content of the exhibition. What we've talked to the minister about are some of the broad themes that are not present in the Canada Hall, as I've discussed in front of the committee today, and the sorts of themes we think should be there in a broad Canadian historical exhibition.

We've yet to develop the storyline for that exhibit. That's up to Dr. Morrison and his staff. I've never had any discussion about any of the specific content that would be in the new Canadian history hall. We've certainly talked about some of the broad kinds of historical themes that are missing, the kinds of things I laid out for you today, yes.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

One of the things the minister spoke about was the need to update current exhibitions. Would you feel that the exhibition regarding first nations needs updating? Does that involve expanding its presence within the museum?

[Mark O'Neill]

Thank you very much for the question.

Mr. Chair, I would say, just to be clear, that there are two permanent exhibitions dealing with first nations. The first is the Grand Hall, the large room with the totem poles. The second is the First Peoples Hall behind it. And in fact there is a third: there are small houses behind the Grand Hall.

We have just finished completing the upgrading of the houses behind the Grand Hall as part of standard museum work that is in no way related to this project. At some point in the future, we would like to be able to update and bring in additional aspects of first nations history into the First Peoples Hall as part of regular museology/museum updates that we would like to do over the next several years. But these are not related to this project. This would be part of the regular maintenance, and research, and exhibitry updates that the museum would be expected to do.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

You lay out a lot of examples here, and I want to deal first with the legislation. Something has been omitted here—a word. I know the minister said it's just a word, but for some reason I'm stuck on it, because it is different. In the original wording of the Museums Act, it says “interest in, knowledge and critical understanding”. In the new version, it says “to enhance Canadians' knowledge, understanding, and appreciation of events”. The word “critical” is not in there. Is there a difference?

[Mark O'Neill]

I don't know why the word “critical” is not there. I'm not sure why that word is not in the mandate statement.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

That means something, right? If you have a critical understanding, it's a part of the critique. It's like an academic function. Is that correct to say?

[Mark O'Neill]

I'm not sure. I think that would be up to interpretation. If you're asking whether the jettisoning of the word “critical” somehow dilutes the importance of “understanding” and “knowledge”, I'm not sure that it does.

I can tell you that in my opinion the impact of this bill on the museum would not in any way change the nature of the scholarly research and the dissemination of knowledge that the museum undertakes. I don't see that at all in this bill.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

It can work outside the legislation itself, this sharing of the artifacts with the rest of the country. Now, I like that idea; I think it's fantastic. The minister mentioned The Rooms in Newfoundland and Labrador. Great. He also mentioned museums on the west coast. But this seems brand new. How is it going to function?

[Mark O'Neill]

I want to applaud and pay tribute to one of our sister institutions, the Canadian Museum of Nature. The Museum of Nature perfected an alliance of natural history museums. They've done it very well. It has existed for about a decade or a decade and a half. We've looked at that.

In our situation, most of our partnerships have been one-offs. It will be a travelling exhibition, artifact loans, those kinds of things. We're very excited, as are some of the museums that have already signed on to this whole notion of developing some kind of a cooperative approach to sharing history.

Let me give you one example. I'm going to talk about a small museum, the Timmins Museum: National Exhibition Centre in northern Ontario. We have a very small exhibition there right now. The Timmins Museum is a very small museum. They would like to become a part of this network. What will be enough for the Timmins Museum would be to borrow two or three artifacts or put on a very small exhibition. They will be able to contribute some of their material to our work.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Who pays for that? What's the financial burden on a very small museum? Are they able to punch above their weight?

[Mark O'Neill]

We have no misconceptions about that. We know that the majority of museums in this country are not going to be able to contribute a great deal of financial capacity to this project. We're aware of that. We are right now mounting a fundraising campaign to try to raise some money to help us do this.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

So that's not part of the $25 million?

[Mark O'Neill]

The $25 million is going right to the renovations and the redevelopment of the two halls that we spoke about. We've also committed to raising an extra $5 million.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

So you're going to raise money to allow these smaller museums access to that money, to get artifacts from your institution.

[Mark O'Neill]

We are going to reallocate some of our resources to help do that, and we think that this network will lend itself very well to sponsorship. So we're looking at a variety of ways in which to—