Canadian Heritage Committee on April 1st, 2015

[Van Hoang Nguyen]

—received the commendation, and that recognizes all Canadians for accepting the Vietnamese refugees in particular, and the refugees from all other countries.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you.

Dr. Dao, do you have a comment about that?

[Dr. Ba Ngoc Dao]

Thank you very much.

Keep in mind, all the tragedy, lives lost, much of the terror and atrocities occurred as of April 30, 1975. That is the only date to remember. We must preserve that date otherwise it will be forgotten and we won't be able to explain, especially to future generations, why we are here in Canada instead of in Vietnam. It is because of April 30, 1975.

There was unspeakable tragedy and that is why we must try to commemorate that day. It is not about rekindling hatred or vengeance, but about making this an historic fact for humanity. We must absolutely bear that in mind. We are certainly not talking here about hatred or vengeance, but about the pain and misfortune suffered by the Vietnamese people overseas.

Let's not forget that we are talking about the suffering and all that happened at the start or the middle of April. The opposition is going to Vietnam to celebrate the Great Spring Victory, but what is that about? It is absurd because that was a sad day. In our country, we attend ceremonies that celebrate the great victory, but it reminds us that we were chased out of the country. It is sad for us.

Thank you very much.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you.

I understand that the purpose of the bill is really to express your gratitude to Canada and Canadians for welcoming the Vietnamese refugees with open arms.

Could you tell me, which day, to your knowledge, the first Vietnamese refugee arrived in Canada?

[Dr. Ba Ngoc Dao]

Again, all this tragedy, between 1975 and now, began on April 30, after the Fall of Saigon.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Yes, I understand.

[Dr. Ba Ngoc Dao]

We cannot choose any other date because future generations, Canada, and the world needs to know that it was a day never to forget.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I'm going to change gears.

This is a question that came from the analysts also. Do you feel that the presentation of the events or the timeline as outlined in the preamble of the bill is a fair or accurate reflection of historical facts? Yes or no? Why or why not? Anybody.

[Van Hoang Nguyen]

That is a very interesting question.

As I mentioned earlier, the preamble mentioned that on April 30, 1975, North Vietnam invaded South Vietnam. I should mention that this is what I learned from university. This is a historical fact I said here. I don't bring the long story. I don't mention anything. I just take from the book that I learned from at university. This is where the well-known, respected university history professor mentioned that this is a country that was divided before unification. There was no invasion. The country was one before. It was just temporarily separated.

What I would suggest, if I may, is that some of the wording in the preamble should be removed because it wrongly defines the historical fact of invading. As well the Vietnam War didn't start in 1973 and end in 1975. It was a long war starting all the way back in 1940 and 1954. Those are the facts. As Mr. Dao was saying, I was born after the war. All of this I learned from books and historical facts. Those are things that I wish the committees would consider, the historical facts that you can read from any textbook. You should review the preamble—

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

I have to cut you off there, because members do have to go and vote.

We will suspend, and when we come back, Monsieur Dion will have seven minutes. Then we will move to clause-by-clause consideration.

Could members come back right after the vote, please.

We will briefly suspend.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Good afternoon once again.

We will call the meeting back to order. We are studying Bill S-219.

Monsieur Dion, sept minutes.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also want to thank the three witnesses.

We'll try again to reconcile everyone. I'm determined to try.

As you may know, the Monday before May 25 every year there is a statutory holiday in Canada. Which one is it? Do you know?

You don't know. Most Quebeckers don't know, but they are pleased that on Monday, May 18, of this year, they will not have to work. It will be a free day. It will be a holiday. Many Quebeckers will know that it is the day of the Queen, but they don't know which Queen. They may think it's Elizabeth II. In fact it's Victoria. But most of them don't know that.

Other Quebeckers will want to commemorate Dollard des Ormeaux, a warrior who protected New France against the Mohawks when they were attacking Ville Marie, which is the ancestor of Montreal. Others will want to commemorate les Patriotes , the ones who fought in the 1837 rebellion against the British system of the time. Others will celebrate whatever you want: they are pleased to celebrate.

My point is that Canada is a free country. April 30 will be the date of commemoration for Canadians of Vietnamese background. You will be free to give to this commemoration the definition you want. Just commemorate with us; it will be great. That's my point.

I have a second point I would like you to react to. Canada is a free country. If in addition to that you want to commemorate a day in July, choose your date. Invite me, please. There are not enough days on the calendar to commemorate enough what Canadians of Vietnamese background are giving to Canada.

Those are my two arguments: commemorate what you want, as long as we do it together, and if it's not enough, choose another date and invite me, please.

[Van Hoang Nguyen]

Honourable Stéphane Dion, I fully agree with you on having a day to commemorate or to celebrate the fact that we are all here in Canada. The young generation like mine also wants to have a day. Take the statue like the one in downtown Ottawa to memorialize the sacrifice of a lot of people who came here to the country. I have absolutely no problem with that. We absolutely agree with that. Me, my family, all my friends, my colleagues, my partner, we all agree with that.

However, when a bill like this one is put forward, one that's based on historical fact, we should choose a day that's based on fact and based on concrete evidence. The bill mentions the day when the Nansen Refugee Award was given to Canada. My understanding of the bill is that it's really to commemorate and to celebrate Vietnamese refugees in Canada. However, it's also a thank you to the people of Canada. If you want to say thank you to someone, though, you don't come on July 1 if their birthday was June 28. You come on June 28. You don't come on July 1, do you?

My point here is that you'd better choose a day that is meaningful. For all the refugees, including the Vietnamese, what better day to thank Canada than June 20? The bill itself states that the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees awarded the Nansen Refugee Award to the people of Canada in 1986.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

I have no problem commemorating this day as well.

[Van Hoang Nguyen]

Perfect, and I'm sure I'm going to invite you to my party. I have no problem with that.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

I'm pleased by that. I hope you will come to Saint-Laurent—Cartierville on April 30 when we will celebrate Canadians of Vietnamese background.

Another example is June 24. It used to be la fête des Canadiens français, French Canadians. Now the God of Quebec one day decided it would be the national day of Quebec for all Quebeckers: anglophones, francophones, and allophones together. In my experience, we are now celebrating both. We don't choose. We may celebrate Quebec or all French Canadians from coast to coast to coast; who cares? We celebrate together and we have fun. I hope it will be the case.

Doctor, I know that as president, you are a good man and extremely devoted to your community.

What can we all do together in Montreal to ensure that people like Mr. Trac Bang Do and Mr. Nguyen feel included and celebrate with us?

[Dr. Ba Ngoc Dao]

Thank you, Mr. Dion.

I am here to represent the Vietnamese community in Canada, specifically, the 20,000 plus people in the Vietnamese community in the Montreal region. We are here to deliver our community's message.

We want to keep that day for several reasons. First of all, how can we otherwise explain to future generations why they are here? We have to tell them that it is because North Vietnam invaded South Vietnam on April 30, and we have to tell them about all the terror that ensued as a result. You are all familiar with all of that. We cannot live with just theories. That is why we are here. Future generations need to know this.

The current Vietnamese Canadian community makes significant contributions to social development in so many areas, and future generations will do the same. This is important. If we change the date, younger generations will not know why they are here. It is hard to explain. We have to be sure that the date chosen will always commemorate the date of the mass exodus of Vietnamese people who rejected the doctrine. That is the first reason.

Second, for us, it is not a day of hatred, but rather a day of sadness. I'm sure you would agree that although our homeland is very poor—we have nothing to eat—it is still very beautiful, for sure. For us, staying here is not a gift. We stay here and we are very comfortable, but that does not mean we should forget about our homeland. We are here because of April 30, 1975. We must accept that. That is why that date must not change.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

That is going to have to be the last word.

[Dr. Ba Ngoc Dao]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you very much. We will now move to clause-by-clause consideration.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1) both the preamble and the short title will be postponed.

(Clauses 2 and 3 agreed to on division)

Shall the preamble carry?

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Mr. Chair, debate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Did you ask for debate on the preamble?

Ms. Sitsabaiesan, you have the floor.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Do you want to excuse our guests, so they don't have to sit at the table here while we're going through the perfunctory...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Okay, thank you, Mr. Dykstra.

To our witnesses, thank you very much. You are excused, if you wish.

[Van Hoang Nguyen]

Thank you all.