Canadian Heritage Committee on April 22nd, 2015

[Wilma McNeill]

I think the bill itself is a matter of respect for veterans. I think that's very important. The Holidays Act doesn't necessarily respect the veterans the way it should. Therefore, I can support this. I think it's a good thing because the veterans deserve the highest respect we can give them. That's what I've been fighting for. What I like about this bill is that we're going to respect them and make sure they are looked after. I think this bill will do that if that's what you're aiming for.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Great.

On Monday, with regard to Victoria Day, which is a national legal holiday equal to Canada Day, it was argued that the holiday has lost its significance in Canada for many. In fact, not all provinces do recognize Victoria Day as a holiday.

Do you think that might be the case if Remembrance Day got equal standing to Canada Day?

[Wilma McNeill]

I didn't get all your questions, Mr. Harris. I'm sorry.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I was asking about Victoria Day, which is a national legal holiday equal to Canada Day. It has been argued that, perhaps for many, its significance has been lost. In fact, it's not even recognized in all the provinces as a holiday.

Would you be concerned that this would also become the case for Remembrance Day if it were given the same status as Canada Day?

[Wilma McNeill]

When you talk about Victoria Day, I think there are four provinces that don't really honour it. The province of Quebec uses another name for Victoria Day.

What was the question at the end there?

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Do you think there would be a danger of Remembrance Day losing its significance?

[Wilma McNeill]

I don't think it would lose its significance. If we're trying to have the day and the veterans have the respect, I think it will work out if we get approval for the bill.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you.

Very quickly, Lieutenant-Colonel Stevenson, you mentioned, in regard to time off and the statutory holidays, that more leadership might be required. I think that was very appropriate with respect to leadership. This day has its importance only because of the meaning we impart to it. I think there would be an opportunity, certainly, to continue to improve that.

Do you have any suggestions about how we could better honour Remembrance Day?

[LCol Michael Stevenson]

Yes. It's unfortunate, in my mind, that the educational system in Canada today is so diluted, and in different provinces. Just to take a simple example there's the math problem: Quebec is successful; the rest of Canada, apart from Alberta, is not very good.

The authority has to come down from the federal government to encourage all provinces to respect this tradition. It might even be that each province is invited to send a senior representative, maybe the lieutenant-governor, to Ottawa to take part in Remembrance Day there. It's some inspiration, and getting people involved and encouraging them.

There are two things. At the provincial level, the government there takes a more active role. At the educational authority, which is not the preference of the federal government, they encourage them, through the provincial governments, to take more interest in schools. This is not like my friend here, who is just going to a lecture on Remembrance Day, or before it, but to get it involved in the education system. The Vimy Foundation does this.

Also to encourage more people to participate in Poppy Day—

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you very much.

We're going to have to move on. We're going to give you a chance a little bit later. There are going to be more questions.

We're going to have to move to Mr. Valeriote for seven minutes.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I want to thank you, Mrs. McNeill, Mr. Stevenson, and Mr. Stewart, for attending our committee today.

I serve on the veterans committee. I've been asked to attend this committee because I serve on the veterans committee.

I've learned over many years, as you no doubt know, there is no amount of compensation that can be given to our veterans that would adequately recognize their sacrifice, the sacrifice of those who died and those who returned to tell their stories. There's no amount of commemoration that can be undertaken, not only on November 11 but also on other days of the year when they ought to be honoured and memorialized for their sacrifice. While we could do more, we can never do enough as far as I am concerned.

That being said, however.... I'm quoting Michael Blais, who was here before us a couple of days ago. He's the head of the Veterans Advocacy. He said that never should Remembrance Day be considered a lesser national holiday. Interestingly, Mrs. McNeill, these are the words, essentially, that you used, that it should never be relegated to a lesser national holiday.

You are absolutely correct in your observation that this bill does not create a statutory holiday. For anybody who is uncertain, not only does it not create a statutory holiday—that means a day off work or out of school—it couldn't create a statutory holiday even if it were to direct the provinces to let everyone out of school and out of work, because letting people out of school and out of work is provincial jurisdiction, not federal jurisdiction.

That being said, knowing that no statutory holiday will be created if this bill is passed, do you think this bill should be passed as quickly as possible, with due dispatch, so that Remembrance Day receives the same, equal consideration the other two national holidays receive under the Holidays Act?

I'm asking this first of Mrs. McNeill. Then I'll ask Mr. Stevenson and Mr. Stewart.

[Wilma McNeill]

I have written many times that Remembrance Day should be right up there with Canada Day, in particular. I believe that with all my heart. I am hoping that if this bill did pass, maybe we could have the veterans up where they should be, so they have all the respect they deserve.

People say that the children should be in the schools on Remembrance Day. Well, I am sorry, but they couldn't be in the schools on Remembrance Day if we had the holiday. If the Legion, in particular, said that they should be in the schools on Remembrance Day, then they have to go to the education and have the education say, “We'll open the schools on Sunday so the students can be in the schools on Sunday”, because that's their biggest argument.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Right, but that is something for them to work out with the schools and the provinces.

[Wilma McNeill]

Yes.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Stevenson and Mr. Stewart, do you think that this bill should be passed with all dispatch, given that it does not create, nor could it create, a statutory holiday?

[LCol Michael Stevenson]

I'd like to point out that it is a bit confusing when it says “statutory holiday”, and they didn't explain to me in the first place that statutory holidays don't have any impact on the provinces. The question, as it was put to me about four days ago, is now becoming more confusing. I'll say this. The further you get away from war, the less people remember it. We are at a stage now where Victoria Day is insignificant. It's a nice holiday. Making it a holiday can diminish it, as opposed to a real Canadian belief that you have to get your butt down to the cenotaph, or you have to get the education system working properly to educate people about Canadian traditions and their history, which is much more important.

I am not sure that this statutory holiday business is going to solve that problem.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Just to be clear, the bill doesn't say “statutory holiday”; it says “holiday”.

Now the other gentleman, would you like to respond?

[Donald Stewart]

If it's going to be a holiday, in my personal opinion and that of the veterans I have talked to, they would like to see it as a statutory holiday. I think that, with a little bit of supervision and whatnot, the bill that you have now in session would be all right.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Okay. I have no further questions, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you very much, Mr. Valeriote.

We'll now move to Mr. Weston for seven minutes.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Lieutenant-Colonel Stevenson, Mr. Stewart, and Mrs. McNeill, you honour my father today, and you honour hundreds of thousands of other Canadians. My father was captured in Singapore in 1940. He served in the expedition of the bridge on the River Kwai and came back having lost half his body weight. His appendix was removed by a doctor using only a razor blade, and he contracted every jungle disease you can imagine, but he survived. In honour of him and countless other people, we are all together on this. We all want to honour our veterans.

I am confused. I am a parliamentarian, and I am hearing it's a statutory holiday and it's not a holiday. I heard a good suggestion from you, Lieutenant-Colonel Stevenson, that there could be something parallel to what we see in our Elections Act, which requires employers to give dispensation to people who want to mark an important part of our citizenship, and that is to go and vote.

Mrs. McNeill, I admire you tremendously for your efforts. You named so many legislators you have interacted with, and you have been involved personally in dispatching thousands of letters. You are a wonderful human being and, by the way, you are represented by a wonderful MP. What do you think about this idea to ensure in legislation that employers and others are required to let people go and mark the day, but not confuse us by suggesting that it would lead the provinces to declare a holiday, perhaps because they would also be confused in thinking that this is now a requirement, given this new law?

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

On a point of order—and I'm sorry—I really appreciate Mr. Weston's question, and I honour his recognition of the efforts of the witnesses, but he's suggesting something to the witness that cannot be done in this legislation. It's constitutionally impossible for the legislation to require or have the provinces or any employer or school consider any such thing as he's suggesting.

It's quite misleading when he poses the question—

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

As a constitutional lawyer, what I would say is that you could create a framework that provinces could opt into—

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

One moment, please.

There is some debate here on different viewpoints from both sides of the table. It's my ruling that when members have the floor to ask the questions, they have the right to ask the questions as they so choose. That's my ruling on this. There are different viewpoints on this from different sides, which is clearly debate. My ruling is that the member who has the floor has the right to ask the questions as they see fit.

Mr. Weston....

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

To make it even more evident, some of us are going to our Legions to ask for guidance, because we need it.

What do you think about a change of direction that would allow us to maybe take the spirit of what Mr. Harris wants to do but make it clearer, so that people would be able to go and celebrate Remembrance Day without any indication that it proposes a day off?