Canadian Heritage Committee on April 22nd, 2015

[Wilma McNeill]

You've mentioned the Legion. The biggest thing that's said about the Legion is that they're the biggest military organization, but the Legion members themselves are divided. Some of them want the kids in the schools and some of them don't want the kids in the schools, and they don't want the holiday. Other military organizations are very supportive of the day.

To answer your question on this bill, I think that if it passes maybe it will give the veterans the respect they're looking for, and maybe it will evolve. I've just written to the new Ontario premier and to the labour minister. I did receive a response from the labour minister, the Honourable Mr. Flynn. He said that not all military groups want the holiday or that they recognize it, so....

There is a lot of division. We're thinking that maybe this bill will create unity and more respect—

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

The Legion representatives we heard from earlier this week said they were against passing the bill, not because they disagree with the spirit, but because they want to make sure that people are induced to commemorate Remembrance Day and not just take a day off.

What I don't understand is why you think there is a lesser status around Remembrance Day because it's not included in the same act as Canada Day. I don't see that one follows the other, necessarily.

[Wilma McNeill]

Well, I know that when I talk to some of the Legion members in Sarnia, they are very divided. How can you support if you're not representing all the members and their decisions?

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Can we go back to you, Lieutenant-Colonel Stevenson? Have you had a chance to reflect further on this idea of yours that got us thinking about creating some provision that's parallel to that in the Elections Act?

[LCol Michael Stevenson]

I don't think you can dictate what people will do with such a thing as Remembrance Day, but you can encourage them. I think it would be much more acceptable to all provinces if somehow in this act you could.... I understand that now you can't dictate to the provinces, but perhaps there's some way of getting the message over. An hour off, companies can afford. Small businesses could even close down for an hour, if they so wish, or have five or 10 minutes of silence within the confines of their business.

I'm quite sure that if you make it so that all the provinces, if possible, take a day off, it would be counterproductive to the spirit of getting to that cenotaph, to thinking about what it's all really about. People would drift away, left to their own devices. Getting the message over to businesses, getting the message over to churches, particularly to the education systems, is a challenge that has to be met if we want this thing to work properly, and with true depth of feeling, and not let it be another Canada Day, Victoria Day, or even Simcoe Day. They have that on the first Monday in August in Ontario. He was famous when it started, but now there's no respect at all, and he was a great leader.

We have to be very careful how we handle this thing. The spirit that drives people is an important thing.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Let me just thank you again for venerating our veterans, all three of you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Now we'll go to Mr. Harris for a maximum of five minutes.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much.

This conversation with respect to how we can best honour the tremendous sacrifice that's been made for our country over the years by countless individuals is certainly an important conversation to have, and to continue to have, in terms of how we can best commemorate. Of course, with Remembrance Day itself, it is a holiday for federal employees. Certainly the banks are closed as well, because they're federally regulated. Six provinces and three territories currently have it as what would be considered to be a traditional statutory holiday.

I have pointed repeatedly to the examples of Manitoba and Nova Scotia. They have chosen their own paths. In Manitoba, businesses are shut down until 1 p.m. so that people have the opportunity to go and commemorate. Nova Scotia actually passed its own Remembrance Day Act, stating who would and wouldn't be working that day so that they could have employees be off, yet still have the schools open. That's certainly something I'd encourage every province that currently doesn't do anything for Remembrance Day to go and look at.

Even if I might desire to create a statutory holiday, we do not have that power federally. For me, this was about correcting what I think was a mistake when the Holidays Act was in fact first passed.

Just to briefly correct Mr. Weston, Canada Day and Remembrance Day are both in the same act, the Holidays Act. The only difference is that Canada Day and Victoria Day are listed as legal holidays, whereas Remembrance Day is simply listed as a holiday. That is why we've heard many people talk about it as potentially being viewed as a lesser holiday than Canada Day.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Mr. Dykstra, on a point of order.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

If you're going to keep going down this road, Dan, like....

Let me read from your speech.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

This is debate.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

No, it's not debate. This is your speech from the House of Commons, where you state what your bill will do, “Bill C-597, an act to make Remembrance Day a national statutory holiday”. You claim right in your speech that this is what it will do.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

The chair has ruled on this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Mr. Dykstra, once again, I appreciate what your position is on this, but this is debate. I have ruled that members have their time and they do have the right to ask the questions.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Mr. Chair, you can't make a statement in the House of Commons, and state that this is what your bill will represent, and then come to committee and say it represents something else.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

We're running out of time, Mr. Chair, and you've ruled on this already.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Mr. Weston.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, could we just ask Mr. Harris to explain the contradiction? I would appreciate it.

[Kennedy Stewart, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

This is debate.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

If you had the floor you could.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Mr. Weston, Mr. Harris is correct. He has the floor and he has about two minutes left.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much. My apologies to the witnesses for all the inside baseball going on and attempts to sow confusion.

Again, what I was saying was that the most important thing is how best to commemorate. We all come from the same place with respect to wanting to enrich and enhance that commemoration. Certainly, I saw in November, when we actually had an all-party agreement to fast-track this bill to committee and we had a vote in the House of Commons that was 258 to 2, including members of the committee who are now complaining about contradictions, and who in fact voted for the bill at that time.

It's taken a long time to get to committee and now we have a 30-day sitting extension, which is going to make it very hard for this change to actually be made before we head into an election. There is a good chance, unless the government actually wants to move things along, that this will die on the order paper like so many efforts before it.

Ms. McNeill, having seen this happen before, what is your opinion if we let this opportunity pass us by?

[Wilma McNeill]

When it happened in Ontario, Mr. Boushy didn't tell me that the premier had spoken to him. He told me about six months after the election.

I said, “Why didn't you tell me that? I would have gone to the press and asked why Mr. Harris was interfering with this. He's not on the committee.” He was the one who told Mr. Boushy to not take it to third reading because he would defeat it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you for that clarification.

On that note, thank you to our witnesses.

We will briefly suspend.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Good afternoon once again, everyone.

We're going to call meeting number 41 of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage to order. We are dealing with Bill C-597, an act to amend the Holidays Act, regarding Remembrance Day.

With us at the committee room, we have Mr. Brian Ray, and by video conference, from Kitchener, Ontario, we have Mr. Harry Watts.

We will start with Mr. Ray, for up to eight minutes.