Canadian Heritage Committee on May 13th, 2015

[Victor Quijada]

I think that's also a long-term process. There are institutions and conservatories that are recognized for providing the best training, and you look to those schools, the Juilliards and those types of schools. Many Canadian dancers who are born and trained in Canada will go to Juilliard and receive training there. Then they will go on to European contracts, stay in New York, or work elsewhere in the United States. I believe that training, and upping the training, is a big part of keeping dancers here. In the meantime, I do think that being insular about how we hire is not necessarily the way to go.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I hear you on the short term. I am going to cut you off a little bit because I have less than a minute right now.

We see teaching language totally integrated into our schools, and sports are integrated into our schools. What do you think are the benefits of implementing partnerships with local dance companies, or larger Juilliards or whatever, into our school system?

[Jeff Herd]

The initiative of sharing dance is exactly that. It's to bring dance into the schools and into the community on a larger level.

The training is very important. The training program through Heritage is very important. I've gone blank on the name. The other thing is that this actually facilitates some of the larger cities. We benefit from that at our school, but it's also getting out into the smaller communities. There is a young gentleman from a Métis community in Saskatchewan who trained with us, trained in Toronto, and is a famous dancer in London. We'd like to keep them. We'd like to see more people from the indigenous communities around the country, etc. I think the training fund is very important.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Dion, you have seven minutes.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mrs. Lussier, Ms. Bellefeuille and Mrs. Andrew, and Mr. Herd and Mr. Quijada, thank you.

Mrs. Lussier, I really liked your presentation, but it seems to me that one sentence remains a little incomplete and is out of step with the rest. Things seem to be working well. You have programs, and you help companies. We don't know whether its more or less than past years, but we could ask you that.

The sentence in question is the following, “The programs of the Canada Council for the Arts are currently undergoing an extensive review.” Why is an extensive review being done if everything is working so well?

[Caroline Lussier]

Indeed, everything is going well.

These reviews are taking place for a number of reasons. We support a group of companies in all areas, in creation, tours and support organizations, but there is room for improvement.

The community is changing. Victor spoke to you about his personal experience and the differences he has seen in dance schools in the past 15 years. We are reviewing our programs to adapt to these changes. Changes are taking place, not just in the world of dance. I'll talk about Victor's experience because it is perfect for illustrating my remarks.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Of course. We're listening.

[Caroline Lussier]

Before, we had dancers who did hip hop, classical ballet and contemporary dance. Now, one dancer does everything, and Victor is a good example of this. The same is true in other disciplines. Productions are increasingly hybrids, meaning a dancer will work with a visual artists or a media arts artist. It can also be presented by a theatre presenter. The boundaries of disciplines aren't what they used to be. One of the reasons we are reviewing our programs is to adapt to these changes and to remain relevant in a sector that is shifting enormously.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

So that we can help you adapt, do you have any suggestions for the committee?

[Caroline Lussier]

Certainly to continue to support the Canada Council for the arts.

My colleague will answer.

[Alexis Andrew]

We are changing things because we want to lighten the administrative burden for the artists. Caroline said that the disciplines are changing, but how the artists want to interact with the Canada Council for the Arts is changing, too. We are also looking at our administrative processes to simplify them and make them less demanding for the artists. All the agencies would like to give the artists services and grants in the simplest possible way so that they can spend time doing their art rather than drafting reports and filling out grant applications.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

The goal of the reform you are preparing is two-fold. You want to adjust to new practices in dance and lighten the administrative burden on everyone who applies for grants so that they do not have to spend half their time filling out reports or work plans.

[Voices]

Absolutely.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Mr. Herd, Mr. Quijada, Madame Bellefeuille, you deal with the arts council, I guess. You have an opportunity now to tell us what you want to see in this review of their program, and what you don't want to see.

[Jeff Herd]

If I may, I've had the good pleasure to work in Europe. The interesting thing is that in Europe, arts are very accessible at 39 euros or 39 pounds for a ticket. In Canada our tickets are very expensive, because we have to find money to produce our art and so on. I think all of us also in Canada have a very high earned revenue ratio. Of course, we're always in the room asking for more money—not today, but we're always asking for more money.

I was thinking about initiatives, very outlandish ones, where support for our cultural industries could be part of making, I don't know, tickets tax-deductible—or something ridiculous in that area—so that people could get to the arts. I'm looking forward to the day when I can be like Walmart and roll back my prices, but right now I don't have the guts for that. I think we need something to make things more accessible. We have these wonderful theatres across Canada and we have the wonderful infrastructure of the Canada Council. The council is an amazing entity and very supportive, but we're still looking for areas of access. This is, I think, the biggest thing we struggle with in terms of the business end.

For independent artists, I think it would be the same thing. What would make it possible for people to walk in off the street and go see a show? If we could be comparable to the movie theatres, even.... Mind you, Cineplex has gone up a little bit.

Those are the kinds of things, those outside-the-box initiatives, that I'm looking at.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Quijada.

[Victor Quijada]

I applaud the Canada arts council for continuing to try to streamline the process to also be malleable with the shifting landscape of dance. I mentioned already about how hip hop has changed, but that's just one part of this new generation that I was talking about. Because the Internet and the way that we share information and the way that we share dance has changed so much enormously, and at all tiers—the way that we receive it, the way that we're inspired, the way that we create—are being affected. They are attempting not only to streamline the application processes but also to redefine who does what and how, which is very important.

I think the Canada arts council has a difficult job. Most—not all—of the juries on who gets money are peer assessments. The Canada Council also has a very important role in.... It's something that is to be exercised with caution, but they can massage things to go in a certain way. That's not to mention common-sense management. If figuring out if resource sharing is an important thing for us in order to do more with the funds that we have, then that would come from the arts council.

It's a tricky area, because then we start doing their bidding and we start doing what they want us to do. That's a very dangerous place, of course. But there are ways that possibly they can help certain things happen—without going into any specifics.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to move to Mr. Young, for seven minutes.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you very much for coming here today. It's very interesting. We have one of the oldest dance forms ever here with us with one of the newest, and you're saying many similar things, which is fascinating to me. I really appreciate hearing about it.

What I thought was really fascinating—and I think it was Mr. Herd who said this, or I beg your pardon, it might have been Alexis Andrew—is that dance is about expression, fitness, social connection, and physical well-being. Was that you, Alexis?

[Jeff Herd]

I think we all said it.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

We're all sort of saying the same thing.

It's interesting, because in the Standing Committee on Health right now we're doing a study on the mental health of Canadians. It's a very serious issue and it seems to be getting worse for a whole range of reasons, yet what a lot of people who have mental health issues need is to express themselves, to get better physical fitness, to have better social connections and physical well-being. Dance could be a cure for many people, or at least benefit a large number of people who are suffering from a whole range of mental illnesses. The health side of it is absolutely fascinating to me, because it could help their hearts and their minds as well. So it's really great to hear, but difficult to measure.

I wondered, Mr. Herd, did you want to expand on that at all? Did you have enough time to comment on physical and mental health of dancers?

[Jeff Herd]

Certainly. We see that in our recreational division, just kids who come—my daughters, for example. Hopefully they'll never be performers; they should go for higher salaries. The well-being is something that a lot of people embrace. There's something about the human animal. We've always sung, we've always danced, we've always told stories.

We've run a program about physical disability called.... I've gone blank on the name of the program. This is people, young and elderly, who come in with disabilities and learn movement. Most of them are challenged physically as well as mentally. We're looking at expanding these programs.

We've been in discussion—and we're going to follow a little bit on the heels of Les Grands Ballets—with the regional hospital about mental health and well-being issues and how we can use movement along those lines.

But we do see a change in discipline and behaviour and things like that, certainly in young people, and we'd like to explore that much further. I know that with what Les Grands Ballets has been doing and the practitioners they're working with, they are seeing the value of movement and rhythm and all that in many factors of health.

But I agree—other than working in the industry—mental health is something that I think is critical, and we do have a role to play beyond the presentation of dance on a stage.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

We heard that grants are key, the Canada Council grants are—

[Jeff Herd]

I beg your pardon?

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

The Canada Council grants are key to dance.

First to Mr. Herd and then Mr. Quijada. I want to make a reference here. I have a list here of Canada arts training fund grants from 2011-12, and they are very varied: Ballet Creole, $40,000; Canada's National Ballet School, $6 million; Toronto School of Dance Theatre, $300,000; Native Earth Performing Arts, $50,000. I notice that in 2013 the Canada Council funding for dance as a package was over $18 million.

Mr. Herd, what would happen if there weren't any Canada Council grants? What would happen to dance in Canada?