Canadian Heritage Committee on Sept. 27th, 2018

[Jackie Dean]

Yes, and there's Quebec City as well. We are in constant conversation with Quebec City on going there for the Junos, and we're really trying to make sure that all of our properties, with all of our submissions—our nominating, voting—are in French as well, to give the French artists the opportunities, because we know—

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

I will have to cut you off there, but I'm glad to hear you're looking into it.

Mr. Blaney, you have seven minutes.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am a Member of Parliament in the Lévis area, across from Quebec City. Unfortunately, we do not have a National League team, but we have major infrastructure to host such National League teams, namely the Centre Vidéotron. So, we would be very happy to host the Juno Awards gala in Quebec City until the Quebec Nordiques return.

[Some hon. members]

Ha, Ha!

[Steven Blaney]

I will continue on a more serious note.

I will speak to Ms. Rioux.

I also am new to this committee. I have an engineering background.

When you said that remedies in the digital age no longer exist, I liked it and I didn't like it.

It would seem that we are witnessing a major transformation of your industry. The big fish seem to be doing well, but the industry as a whole seems to be penalized. In 2012, our Conservative government introduced numerous amendments to the Copyright Act. Clearly, since then, there have been changes, even an upheaval, and the Liberal government is expected to show leadership. At this time, I get the impression that they are trying to buy time. It is aggravating, because our artists need to be given the necessary tools to adapt to current changes in technology.

You said that the problem had to be addressed at the source.

You said that we need to “stop the tap”.

I agree with you entirely.

So, there is an elephant in the room, and the best way to eat it is one bite at a time.

I will begin with the proposal put forward by Mr. Adams. Mr. Fauteux and Ms. Selman alluded to it, and I would like to know your opinion. Mr. Adams proposed that royalties be recovered 25 years after the agreement is signed by the artist, instead of 25 years after the artist's death.

If possible, I would like to know the Juno team's opinion on this, and your own, Ms. Rioux. Are you in favour of the proposal that royalties should be paid to the artist after 25 years?

[Allan Reid]

Again, we're in a very unique situation at CARAS, where we don't really have that sort of financial need or participation. I do know from my history—

[Steven Blaney]

But you came up with four recommendations, including the 50 to 70 years. Do you have an opinion on this particular one?

[Allan Reid]

Yes. I think the biggest challenge is not knowing also the investment that's made an artist successful, which does take a substantial investment. That's why we believe the 50 to 70 is probably a better route. Again, it would depend on every artist and their chance to recoup the investment, I would think.

[Steven Blaney]

Do you prefer the 50 to 70?

[Allan Reid]

Yes.

[Steven Blaney]

Ms. Rioux.

[Caroline Rioux]

I would have to echo this.

I have two comments on what I've been hearing. First, 25 years ago was 1993. I don't know about you, but the stuff I listen to these days is substantial from that period of the 1970s and 1980s. To me it doesn't seem that long ago.

That being said, I do also think it takes a village. The U.S. very recently passed—we hope President Trump will sign off on this—the Music Modernization Act. David Israelite, CEO of the National Music Publishers’ Association, had an op-ed very recently stating that the reason they were able to make such significant improvement into their own situation, improving the lives of artists, songwriters, creators and their partners, the publishers, was that the industry put their own differences aside and together spoke with a united voice in balancing the bargaining powers between the users of the rights and the rights holders. I think that is where I want to focus at the moment.

[Steven Blaney]

In a nutshell, you feel that the 50 to 70 is more valuable at this time. Is 25 too short, or is the principle? Would 35 be better?

[Caroline Rioux]

Well, I'm not here to comment either way on the 25 years. What I am trying to say is that my focus is to have better tools to enforce copyright altogether for all rights holders.

[Steven Blaney]

If you have recommendations in that regard, please share them with the committee.

Madam Dean, you mentioned removing the exemption of $1.25 million. As I listen to you and others, it seems that radio is only part of the big pie of revenue. It seems like we're focusing on this small piece of the bigger story. How come you came up with a recommendation on this, and how can we take better grasp of the bigger pie of revenue, which seems to be, according to those experts, the concentration of multinationals and radio and so on? What's your bigger view on the revenue?

[Jackie Dean]

The exemption was supposed to be a temporary measure. It was for the smaller radio stations, which have now all been consolidated and bought out by the larger corporations like Bell and Rogers. I've seen the analysis of what's happened with the revenues over the years since that exemption has been put in place. It was temporary, and we need to now eliminate it so that path of revenue can go down to the artists.

As far as the bigger picture on the ecosystem goes, over the past 16 years, I've never seen an industry go through a business model change so many times. The biggest challenge we've had is the adjustment that needs to come when all of a sudden you go from a CD to downloads to streaming. The implication of those changes has gone across the board and across the entire ecosystem within the industry, and we have to look at all the components, not just where the rights come into play. It has to be with how live performing fits in the marketplace, as well as how and where the artists are signed. That has all had a huge impact on everything we've been doing in the industry, and the doors have been opened.

To Caroline's point, the worldwide access and how people consume music has had such a huge change on the business model of the industry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you.

Mr. Nantel, you now have the floor for seven minutes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you everyone for being here this morning.

There are about 20 minutes left in this meeting. It is important to keep in mind that we do not have a lot of time left. I will therefore ask a very short question of Mr. Fauteux and Ms. Selman.

Last week, we received, among other people, Mr. Bussières from the Regroupement des artisans de la musique. He gave us a document listing the organization's 29 recommendations. The first 11 are part of axis 1 and are measures to be applied immediately to address the situation. Axes 2 and 3 contain more long-term recommendations, to rebuild the system, with the creators at the centre of it.

You see things from the creator's perspective and you are right to do so. That is the very source, in the same way that water is the source of all carbonated drinks.

Could this mysterious agreement between all worldwide music publishing companies be seen as an injustice, which is what I was alluding to, Ms. Rioux, by which each stream on a continuous publishing platform pays fractions of a cent per item?

Could you answer me in one minute, please?

[Brianne Selman]

Certainly the way these things are distributed seems unfair and unjust, and with market consolidation it gets even more unjust. Probably the biggest change we've seen in the last 40 years, to answer your earlier question, is that it has essentially become a system of monopoly.

I would remind the government there are options for dealing with monopolies that don't necessarily exist in the Copyright Act, which is a very broad, general thing. There are specific ways to deal with that.

Historically, our antitrust approaches have focused on price fixing, but it's far more concerning at this point in time to look at how large monopolies are able to exert their bargaining power over the individual creators. As the market consolidates, they have more and more bargaining power because there are fewer and fewer other avenues.

That is one area that the Copyright Act can protect, though, by not over-regulating for new entrants.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Okay. Thank you very much.

I'm asking you the question because I think that we shall not be defocused on the idea here.

Ms. Rioux, you spoke earlier about this exact question that I have asked. We are abused, particularly in Quebec, by having neighbouring rights applied to performers and producers. In a somewhat similar manner, in some countries at this time, where the neighbouring right has been accepted, but where the corresponding laws have not yet been passed, money is accumulating. There are places where there is still no structure for redistribution of those funds, so they build up. Why is that done? It is because it is felt that it is fair and right for creators, performers and producers to receive their fair share. That is exactly what needs to be discussed.

I recognize what my colleague Mr. Blainey mentioned about the matter of the temporary, but somewhat grotesque, exemption granted to broadcasters to give them a break that they needed at the time. Now, they probably do not need it anymore at all, given the audience shares held by radio stations that are owned by large groups. We must remember the figures. Clearly, there are a lot of small, independent stations, but as for percentages, they do not need a break. That said, we are not here to argue.

Mr. Reid, I know the extent of your career. You were with A & M Records. I believe, at the time, Bryan Adams was doing his second major album when he signed a contract with you. You have seen it snow in Canada. I was with Sony Music at the time when you were with A & M Records. You then went to Maple Music, where you picked up many artists who the large American record producers operating in Canada seemed to increasingly ignore. I congratulate you for that. I believe that you contributed to the interesting success of some artists who may have fit less in the American model.

In the audiovisual world, it is easy to reassure ourselves by saying that everything is fine and that producers like Xavier Dolan or Denis Villeneuve are proof that our television industry is going well. However, we cannot see the success of Drake or Justin Bieber as rock-solid achievements that show that the Canadian music industry is doing really well. In fact, we need to protect our Canadian market and you are the best example. Do you agree?

[Allan Reid]

First off, thank you for the kind words. Again, I've enjoyed a lovely career in the music industry in working with numerous Canadian artists. Bryan was not my signing; I didn't get to work with him.

I do agree. I think it is upon us as a nation to make sure that we are developing Canadian artists. Too often, we see many Canadian artists go to the U.S. to sign to multinationals or even to sign to independent labels, but there is a thriving music scene of creators in this country, and it is from coast to coast. Seventy-two per cent of the nominees that come to the Junos are actually from independent artists. It's quite incredible.

I do agree. As a government and a nation, I think we need to support our creators. They are our cultural identity. I think that's one of the most important things that we can put out to the world.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

An example is the ridiculous micro-pennies we receive because of a bad decision by the Copyright Board. For example, if there's no more push we can do on radio.... Radio was our partner forever but nowadays they are losing ground, and there may be not as much radio. Many people are streaming. Should we try, for example, to compensate anybody spinning on these streaming services and say that they can have some support from the government because our market is too small to be enough to make a living on? Probably that is an impression in most things.

Don't you think the Copyright Board should be connected to what we are doing now? I'm afraid that the Copyright Board is being reviewed behind closed doors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

You have, like, 13 seconds.

[Jackie Dean]

Yes. I couldn't agree with you more. The implications of those decisions are not focusing in on what's happened in the business model. It's been just....

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you.