Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 18th, 2018

[Nika Collison]

Yes, despite the museum task force report—we started around the same time—this relationship-building was a very new idea. Even indigenous access to our collections in museums was challenging back in the day. We were breaking down barriers, knocking on doors, but fundraising was also involved, because for 20 years there hasn't been government financial support, and it's expensive for us and for museums. Research is required to ensure we are bringing home the right things, and to find out where these treasures are.

There are negotiations and finding ways to bring things home that align with Haida laws and protocols and values. But predominantly it's huge amounts of work and it takes time.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

This next question is for both of you. How would your organizations like to be involved in the creation of a national action plan? In your opinion, who are the key stakeholders who ought to be involved in this?

[Clement Doore]

When the Truth and Reconciliation Commission report was finally presented to Parliament, the Blackfoot Crossing Historical Park immediately started thinking about an overall plan on how to revive our culture and our language. One of the things we did discuss and plan was that we want to write a history of our culture and our language, going back before the Europeans came. We want to start there and document our way of life, our territories, and then from there proceed to the residential schools and to the present day and our relationship with Canada.

Different groups on a reserve are trying to teach our language, but there's a problem. The parents don't speak the Blackfoot language, only the children do, and those who do speak it don't seem to get too enthusiastic about it. I think the reason is that they're not aware of their culture, where they came from. If they were, they would be more willing to learn their language, but it's really important that we take a lead role and be part of any overall plan.

I've been asked quite a few times, what's the difference between your museum and the Glenbow museum in Calgary, for example? The answer is very simple. Glenbow is a museum. Another culture is explaining my culture. At the Blackfoot Crossing Historical Park, you're hearing from the horse's mouth, so to speak. We're the ones who know the history and so on.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you.

That brings us to the end of your seven minutes, but perhaps Ms. Collison will be able to bring some of those answers in our next round.

We are going to Mr. Shields, please.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I appreciate the panel today and the explanation of where we're at and where we're going.

With the Blackfoot Crossing, the council has been working on this. You obviously have a long history with the Blackfoot Crossing. Could you give us a bit of your history with this facility and what it's doing?

[Clement Doore]

It's 11 years old now. It took almost 20 years before funding was finally approved by the Alberta government and the Government of Canada. We hired an architect, and he went around meeting with the elders and asking them how they would like to see this museum built. As I said earlier, it's a metaphor of our culture. It's very unique. It's been recognized by the UN. When it was built, they said this could become a world-class facility—UNESCO would recognize it. The ongoing programs that we have right now are based more on tourism. People from all over the world have shown up. We have this place that tells the history of the Siksika Nation, and a history of our traditional territories.

For example, this year it's booked almost every day from April to September by people from Calgary—students, political groups and historical groups. They're coming to visit us and they're asking a lot of questions.

I'm reminded of when it was first opened. I went to the museum just to see what was going on. A lady was coming out and was kind of crying, so I jokingly asked the staff, “What did you do to her?” They said that she was crying because our culture is so beautiful. We should have done this a long time ago.

Thank you.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you for that answer. I am very familiar with the site, having been there many times.

You mentioned the repatriation of Chief Crowfoot's artifacts. Where are they?

[Clement Doore]

They're in England. It's been an ongoing discussion. The previous manager, Jack Royal, was the one who was spearheading it. He is now the manager of the Blackfoot Confederacy organization. A few stalls have occurred, but they were still talking to them. It seems that they're willing now to proceed and to put in place some sort of agreement on how we can get back Chief Crowfoot's regalia and leggings.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I knew Jack had moved on.

I think that's really interesting. That's the lead, if you want to do your renewal, because of the historical site and the signing by Chief Crowfoot. I think that's a significant lead for your renewal project, so I'm glad to hear that is part of it. I really appreciate hearing that.

[Clement Doore]

Yes.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I'll move on to Haida Gwaii. I've had the opportunity to go to Haida Gwaii. It's very different from Siksika. Siksika has one of the very positive positions in that it's close to the Trans-Canada Highway. It has a great, significant geographic location. Haida Gwaii is beautiful, but the problem is that it's so isolated. Where Siksika has the opportunity to show and educate, it's very hard to get to Haida Gwaii.

When you talk about sharing for Haida Gwaii, how can we overcome that geographical barrier for most of us to get there?

[Nika Collison]

Mr. Shields, were you on the standing committee studying the state of museums?

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I was with the environment committee.

[Nika Collison]

You just sound familiar. Sorry.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Yes. I've met you.

[Nika Collison]

Okay, great.

I'm just going to back up quickly, because I think Louis Riel is important. He said something about how a hundred years from now we will rise again, and art will bring us back. That's what we are seeing through true access to our art.

In closing the gap, there are really neat initiatives going on with the UBC Museum of Anthropology in partnership with our museum and other indigenous cultural centres and museums in B.C., where we are working to bring to light our centres and eventually create a sort of cultural corridor that visitors would be inspired to follow.

Our visitation continues to rise. We're hesitant to become like Banff. It's the education through media and educational productions such as documentaries that give great presence of our nation to the greater world. There is usually a two-year lag that follows anything that becomes international.

I'm going to back up and say that infrastructure to get people over—the B.C. ferries, the flights.... It can cost less to fly to Germany from Vancouver than it does to fly from Vancouver to Haida Gwaii. There are such limited flights and ferry schedules that it really impacts visitors' abilities to get here at times. Financial support in that manner would be great, both for transportation and for our ability to market and partner with other institutions to work on bringing people to our doorstep.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you.

Mr. Nantel, you have the floor for seven minutes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I want to thank Ms. Collison from the Haida Gwaii Museum, and Mr. Doore from Blackfoot Crossing Historical Park.

As Ms. Collison said, we've very proud that Parliament has passed Romeo Saganash's bill, which constitutes a very clear implementation of the rights of Indigenous peoples with respect to UNESCO and the UN. It's a big step forward. I think that all parliamentarians can be proud. Above all, we can be proud of all the mediation efforts made by the various Indigenous stakeholders.

Mr. Doore, I heard you talk about the artifacts that you were deprived of. One parallel seems natural to me. Saint-Laurent, Emmanuella Lambropoulos' constituency, is home to the Musée des maîtres et artisans du Québec. The museum is linked to the furniture and accessories of daily life that Quebecers used to use. The museum also does exceptional mediation work with the public, particularly in Ville Saint-Laurent.

Obviously, these important items must be repatriated to better understand a civilization. I heard Mr. Doore say that all these items are in England. I fully understand the need to repatriate the items in order to explain this way of life.

I think there's also a sacred and spiritual dimension. I can't say that the Musée des maîtres et artisans du Québec has a sacred and spiritual dimension. It's really archeology and history, which is very important.

I must congratulate Mr. Casey on the bill. Of all the things he has accomplished, he's the most proud of this bill. He sees the bill's impact on the community.

Mr. Doore, don't you think that the sacred and spiritual dimensions could be further emphasized?

[Clement Doore]

To us, it's very important that these acts by the Alberta government and the Government of Canada be implemented. We have quite a bit of knowledge of other artifacts that exist around the world.

We went to the Smithsonian in Washington, D.C. one time and there was an incredible number of artifacts that belonged to the Siksika First Nation. We've been making contacts with other museums. We repatriated some artifacts from the museum in Denver. In New York City, we did meet with them. There were some artifacts recovered. All the artifacts are important to us.

We are now working with the University of Calgary, and they're doing archeological digs right on the reserve. They've been finding some very important things there. The people from Siksika are being trained to work with them. We're comprehensive in our approach that we need to practically go around the world and repatriate any artifacts, spiritual or ceremonial, to enhance our culture.

Thank you.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you.

Nika Collison, first, I have to say I accept your invitation. I hope that everyone will have the chance to go see the Haida Gwaii Museum.

After hearing many witnesses, I had a realization that it goes beyond the first parallel I had with the artisans' museum in Ville Saint-Laurent? Can I hear you on this, please?

[Nika Collison]

Yes, thank you very much.

I would just like to say, you're bringing up UNDRIP, so thank you again for that. One of the recommendations for the bill is to change the word “aboriginal” to “indigenous”.

In the case of the Haida Gwaii Museum, we have been researching where our treasures and intangible heritage are around the globe. Simply for objects, we're aware of over 12,000 right now. In our community consultations, our elders have directed that we bring home excellent examples of the full spectrum of our material culture and copies of all intangible heritage. But we cannot bring home 12,000 pieces, and there is great benefit to having some around the world, as long as we determine how they are presented.

Going beyond that, repatriation is healing. It's healing for us, and it's healing for Canada. It deepens our spiritual connection to all aspects of life. It also heals the psychological trauma, not completely but greatly, which is intergenerational, the effects of the colonial regime. It actually changes how we make decisions, and it is a true path, one of the truest paths, towards reconciliation. Of course, there are many other paths that need to be followed.

It is not simply saying, “Give us our relatives back; give us our stuff back” and then going home. We have a commitment, a responsibility to work to make this world better, and that is driven by our highest law, or one of our highest laws, which is respect.

I would also like to say that the bill is missing the identity of ancestors as well as intangible cultural heritage.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

We will now go to Mr. Wayne Long, please.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses this morning.

Look, while heritage is essential to all peoples, there's no question that indigenous people have had the least control over theirs, so I just want to give a shout-out to MP Casey for Bill C-391. I think it's very meaningful, and it can change the way we look at history, for sure.

My first question is for you, Ms. Collison. You mentioned in your presentation that you want other organizations, groups, countries, what have you, to want to give back indigenous cultural property. How realistic is that? Where do you think we are right now with respect to their wanting to give that back? How much work do we need to do?