Evidence of meeting #127 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:30 a.m.
President, Association of Canadian Publishers
The licences are through Copibec. I don't have the gross numbers in hand. I know the rates they charge for copying have been depressed by the fact that the rest of the country has been unwilling to license.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Do you know the amount the rest of the country was paying in 2012?
11:30 a.m.
President, Association of Canadian Publishers
I know that for Access Copyright, our collective, the collective for Canadian authors, illustrators, and photographers in the text licensing realm, the total collected at any stage is under $40 million.
11:30 a.m.
President, Association of Canadian Publishers
The education sector was responsible for most of that, between K-12 and post-secondary. There was additional licensing to the public sector, and in some cases to private companies, for their use of copyright-protected material. There are also bilaterals that govern the copying of Canadian works in other countries on the remittance of those copying revenues back to Canada.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Would you submit with your recommendation the financial numbers that go with those pieces you have referenced in your presentation?
11:30 a.m.
President, Association of Canadian Publishers
Yes, and I think Access Copyright is also on your witness list. They will have direct access to those numbers that aren't on the tip of my tongue.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Okay, thank you.
You talked about being unique, and I appreciate that as a co-operative.... Are other co-operatives that you're familiar with operating in similar senses?
11:30 a.m.
Marketing Manager, West Baffin Eskimo Co-operative, Dorset Fine Arts
Not that I know of.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Are you the only one in the north that's operating this kind of thing? How do the other artists deal with copyright?
11:30 a.m.
Marketing Manager, West Baffin Eskimo Co-operative, Dorset Fine Arts
There's very little recourse for them. If they are unwilling to allow their work to be reproduced, there is no structure for them to utilize or activate in the same way that we operate. It's very unfortunate. Even in the territory of Nunavut, government officials often are imploring us to be more responsible for other territories. But essentially we're a municipal agency for Cape Dorset artists. It's impossible for us to take on that role.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
11:35 a.m.
Marketing Manager, West Baffin Eskimo Co-operative, Dorset Fine Arts
The recommendation is to look at our model. Since the 1950s, we've been very successful at managing all of these things, not only in distributing work internationally but also in the copyright and permissions realm.
We'd happily assist in rolling out that model to other interested communities.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
11:35 a.m.
Marketing Manager, West Baffin Eskimo Co-operative, Dorset Fine Arts
Absolutely.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
October 30th, 2018 / 11:35 a.m.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, everyone, for being here.
First of all, Ms. Jackson, I would really like to congratulate you on what you just presented and on the Royal Bank's role, which I was unaware of. It's a wonderful example of support for creators, and contemporary creators, which is particularly interesting. I sincerely thank you for that.
I would like to turn now to the Cape Dorset artists. In the last Parliament, one of the Liberal MPs, Scott Simms, introduced his bill, Bill C-516, proposing to amend the Copyright Act with respect to the continuation right in visual arts. This bill did not succeed. Today, while there is much talk of the need for reconciliation with indigenous peoples, I find that the lack of resale rights in the visual arts is a glaring example of Canada's lax approach.
I'll summarize for my colleagues what this is all about. Let's take the example of a little-known artist—perhaps a little like those whose creations are on display at the Royal Bank—who sells his work at a low price or accepts the first offer that seems reasonable to him. His work eventually gains value and is sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Without the resale right, the artist won't benefit from it and will remain poor for the rest of his life.
The example is striking in the case of First Nations and Cape Dorset. I must remind you of the case of Ms. Pootoogook, whose body was found in the Rideau River here in Ottawa, where she lived in poverty, illness and despair. This might not have happened if she had received worthwhile remuneration for her work, for example from your Cape Dorset cooperative, Mr. Huffman.
Don't you think we should quickly create this resale right, perhaps even in the context of the revision of the Copyright Act?
11:35 a.m.
Marketing Manager, West Baffin Eskimo Co-operative, Dorset Fine Arts
I think so. The more tools we have at our disposal to distribute resources in the form of financial benefit to our artists.... Yes, we'd welcome that. In the case of Annie Pootoogook, who arguably—and Corrie, I'm sure you would agree—is one of the most important Canadian artists.... Again, we have an office in Toronto and a head office in Cape Dorset. Annie's situation became so difficult for us because we couldn't find her at times. When we did, it was too late.
You're absolutely right. More infrastructure, and I suppose more normalcy in the way we do things and its relationship to the way other things happen in the art world, would be a benefit.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Thank you. What I have come to know is that most Commonwealth countries apply this.
11:35 a.m.
Marketing Manager, West Baffin Eskimo Co-operative, Dorset Fine Arts
Indeed. Yes.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
More than 93 countries around the world have this.
We pride ourselves on reconciliation. We pride ourselves on this. We must always keep in mind that the Canada Council for the Arts broadly prioritizes this angle toward first nations, so I think it would be justified.
Would it be possible for you to send us a resumé of your thoughts about this so that we can include it in our recommendations?
11:35 a.m.
Marketing Manager, West Baffin Eskimo Co-operative, Dorset Fine Arts
Absolutely.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
I would appreciate that a lot.
My next question is for Ms. Edwards and Mr. Rollans.
You mentioned a situation related to fair dealing. I would like to provide a reminder that a former Conservative vice-chair of this committee, Mr. Van Loan, has already made it clear that he felt betrayed by the education community, which he believes exploited the government's intention toward extravagance everywhere in Canada except in Quebec. Therefore, I would very much like to receive your recommendations as soon as possible. If they exist only in English, would it still be possible to distribute them to us? These are specific recommendations.
As you know, I am often very critical of the way we shared the study of the copyright review between two committees. My colleague Mr. Breton had the brilliant idea of asking you what was going on. This lack of synchronization of the two visions is unfortunate. It creates delays and is extremely confusing.
So I would like you to send us your recommendations, and I would like to ask you this. In your opinion, since education is fundamentally a provincial responsibility, did the federal government not interfere here in an issue that did not fall within its jurisdiction by considering it appropriate to secure savings at the expense of creators? Don't you think the provinces should be motivated to get more involved and ensure that the fair rights of creators and authors are respected?
