Evidence of meeting #128 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Okay, thank you. Then I multiply that by 3.1416 and add my mother's age, which comes to—
12:35 p.m.
Voices
Ha, ha.
12:40 p.m.
Legislative Clerk
I just have to clarify a few things, if you don't mind.
The Liberal amendment refers to “acquire or reacquire Indigenous human remains or cultural property”. The part about “human remains” seems to have disappeared in this case. Is that your objective?
12:40 p.m.
Legislative Clerk
Okay. Then it needs to be reworded. I will try to rework the text to have something comprehensive, but it will take me a few minutes.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
Is there anything else you would like to discuss regarding amendment LIB-3?
Since our legislative clerk needs a moment and we have nothing more to add to amendment LIB-3, we could take a two-minute break, to give him time to sort it out. We can then look at a subamendment.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
I'd like to bring everybody up to speed as to where we are at and also so that we can consider what we have before us, because we have a deadline for putting in amendments. They were circulated, and now we have a subamendment that has been proposed. However, as you can see, our legislative clerk has been having some difficulty in finding the correct way to incorporate it.
It looks like we finally have it. Can the legislative clerk please read to us the proposed subamendment?
12:50 p.m.
Legislative Clerk
Amendment LIB-3, point (b), proposes to amend the bill by replacing lines 1 and 2 on page 2 with the following:
acquire or reacquire Indigenous human remains or cultural property;
We will replace that with:
acquire or reacquire, and maintain, control and protect Aboriginal cultural property, as well as the collective intellectual property of its cultural heritage, traditional knowledge and traditional cultural heritage, to which they are deeply attached;
12:50 p.m.
Edmonton Centre, Lib.
Madam Chair, we are actually trying to incorporate amendment NDP-3 into amendment LIB-3.
I have some idea of what you are proposing through this subamendment. The challenge is that, by introducing the concept of intellectual property, it would be subject to copyright, which would completely change the scope of the study.
Mr. Casey, who is here, could enlighten us on this issue.
Bill, what is the challenge in having intellectual property as part of this? I know that this change would take your study into a completely different place from where you wanted the national strategy to go.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Casey Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS
Intellectual property was not considered. It wasn't part of my original thought on this. This was about helping small first nations acquire or reacquire artifacts that were originally from their first nations. Intellectual property wasn't part of my thought at all.
12:50 p.m.
Edmonton Centre, Lib.
Madam Chair, as we have before to Mr. Saganash and Monsieur Nantel, I will submit that this question should be considered by the national strategy on creating this project and that they should look at the question of intellectual property.
You know that we're doing the study on les droits d'auteur and artist compensation. If there is something that should be done between cultural organizations and indigenous nations that have each other's artifacts and if there is some recognition in IP that should happen, it's something that this committee should look at and that the strategy should look at.
I wouldn't want us to constrain ourselves and take this into an ISED kind of place simply because we added this here at Heritage. For that reason, I will not be supporting the subamendment.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
Is there any further debate?
All right. Seeing none, are we ready for the vote on the NDP subamendment?
(Subamendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
That has not carried.
Then we will go to LIB-3, which has not been amended.
Looking at LIB-3, shall LIB-3 carry?
Go ahead, Monsieur Nantel.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
I have a subamendment to LIB-3. You can find it in the pack under NDP-4, in the official pack we received.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the right moment to bring this amendment forward, because if we adopt the amendment from the Liberals, then it would be too late.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
My understanding from what I have is that NDP-3 could not be moved if we adopt LIB-3 but that we could go on to NDP-4.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
We are voting on LIB-3. Shall LIB-3 carry?
(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
That brings us to CPC-3.
Does anyone want to debate CPC-3?
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
We will vote on amendment CPC-3.
(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])
The next one is NDP-4.
Go ahead, Mr. Nantel.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
I would like to bring to your attention the text that you have all received. We could save words and ink by removing the reference to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. However, we think it's appropriate to add the following:
... to maintain, control, protect and develop their cultural heritage, traditional knowledge and traditional cultural expressions, as well as the manifestations of their sciences, technologies and cultures, including human and genetic resources, seeds, medicines, knowledge of the properties of fauna and flora, oral traditions, literatures, designs, sports and traditional games and visual and performing arts;
That's the definition that I would have liked to propose from the beginning. This is an opportunity to reintroduce the definition. Let me point out that it's supported by an expert in the field.
