Evidence of meeting #13 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was magazine.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Matthew Holmes  President and Chief Executive Officer, Magazines Canada
Douglas Knight  Board Chair, Magazines Canada
Luke Smith  Membership Coordinator, National Campus and Community Radio Association

9:40 a.m.

Membership Coordinator, National Campus and Community Radio Association

Luke Smith

We've had radio stations operate on budgets of $500. I don't know how they manage it, but somehow they do. I think Manitoba has CJJJ, which is a tiny community station. They're one of those stations that operate on less than $5,000. If something goes catastrophically wrong.... We had a radio station and their antenna was struck by lightening and they had to go off the air. They just simply could not afford to replace it.

These community stations are really struggling to maintain themselves. In terms of being across multiple platforms, they have to depend on the goodwill of volunteers to create their websites and their social media presence. They don't have the staffing and the resources that are needed.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you. We've reached our three minutes, Mr. Maguire. I'm sorry about that.

Mr. O'Regan.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

I wanted Mr. Knight to continue on that point, if that's okay. I just wanted him to talk a little more about local news on particularly television, if he had any thoughts on that.

9:40 a.m.

Board Chair, Magazines Canada

Douglas Knight

On television news.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Yes.

9:40 a.m.

Board Chair, Magazines Canada

Douglas Knight

Thank God I'm not in broadcasting now, although I started there many years ago.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

But I always say, too, if I could just add to the point, that you don't necessarily have to be in the business. I think most viewers have a clear understanding, and perhaps a frustration, about why they're not getting what they want.

9:40 a.m.

Board Chair, Magazines Canada

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

So as a viewer, perhaps, as well, maybe you could tell me your thoughts on that.

9:40 a.m.

Board Chair, Magazines Canada

Douglas Knight

Sure.

I would suggest a couple of things. We talked a second ago about how the digital environment is really changing this. One of the fastest-growing areas in digital right now is video. It's really interesting. Blogs were the flavour of the month for a while, all kinds of different things. Video is one of the fastest-growing areas, and it partly has to do with the whole streaming thing.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

I just want to interject, because we just heard recently from community television, and I found it very interesting because they talked about community television as the model as it exists right now and how it's depreciating, etc. Community television is alive and well, and it's called YouTube. That's where you find Wayne and Garth. They wouldn't be worrying about getting on the community network now. They're on it.

9:40 a.m.

Board Chair, Magazines Canada

Douglas Knight

I'll take a U.S. example, because when I founded ImpreMedia, which is the largest Spanish-language news thing in America—we had daily newspapers in New York, L.A., Chicago, and all over the place—we put cameras into our reporters' hands. The big Spanish-language television network in America, Univision, could not afford to have their crews covering all the primaries. The primaries are one of the greatest soap operas in political anything. So in the last primary cycle and the primary cycle before, the pictures, the video, coming from the primary races came from our newspaper reporters. We put it up on our own site. It was up on YouTube, but it also got fed to the broadcaster.

So I guess one way of looking at the cost there, and the decline of revenue, is greater cooperation between those who are in the professional news business.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Right. Thank you, sir.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

You have a minute.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

No, I think I'm sharing my time. Am I sharing my time?

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

You're not down as sharing your time, but if you are....

Mr. Vandal.

May 5th, 2016 / 9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

To Mr. Smith, in terms of community and campus radio, on average, across the stations you represent, what's the most popular? Is it independent music, docudramas, information? What do most of the stations air?

9:40 a.m.

Membership Coordinator, National Campus and Community Radio Association

Luke Smith

Hands down it's Canadian music. Canadian content is the bread and butter of our radio stations. CiTR in Vancouver produces a magazine highlighting local musicians and they release compilation albums.

On the whole, 15% of programming is spoken word and news, and the rest of it is music. By our licence conditions from the CRTC, no more than 10% of that can be hits or other genres such as country, so it's vastly Canadian.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

That's interesting. I have a French community station,

Envol 91 FM, Saint Boniface.

They've suffered reductions in advertising from all levels of government. There was a time years ago when I think all levels advertised.

Is that a common theme across the country?

9:40 a.m.

Membership Coordinator, National Campus and Community Radio Association

Luke Smith

Sadly, yes. I think the government advertises through one particular agency, and that agency won't work with campus and community stations because we don't have Numeris data, and Numeris is the listenership project. It's simply too prohibitive and costly for our stations to participate. We're talking about tiny stations in small areas.

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

Right.

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you.

Now we have Mr. MacGregor for three minutes.

9:45 a.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Knight, in your opening remarks you talked a bit about strength in diversity. We've all heard how some magazines last longer than others. Could you tie that in to your strength in diversity comments, and elaborate a bit more? Canada is a very diverse nation and a lot of magazines exist for niche markets. Sometimes those niche markets funnel down into nothing, and they become non-existent.

9:45 a.m.

Board Chair, Magazines Canada

Douglas Knight

Thinking about and studying the whole strength in diversity thing in this country is deeply interesting, because it's not just about making sure you've covered every niche group and you're telling their stories. That's important, but it's not just that. It's also the language Canadians use in telling everyday stories about any conflict or anything that's going on in their communities. It's the way Canadians frame their conversation that is different. It's subtly different, but once you start looking at it, you say, “Oh my God, it's a lot different.”

When I was living in New York.... This is kind of interesting. I will tell you that in a Spanish-language newspaper it's one language, but it's 22 countries of origin. They could hardly talk to each other. It was unbelievable to have a Canadian come down and say, “Okay, guys, put down the guns and let's have a real conversation.”

If you look at how Canadians talk to each other about anything, you find that there's a really interesting way of engaging that dialogue over many years. As magazines or other broadcasters, when we actually do start to drill down into the stories of newer Canadians and into the stories of first nations.... There's a tremendous focus on the Far North right now, which is really neat, with great voices. Sheila Watt-Cloutier was up for a political writing award at last week's Politics and the Pen. You hear these voices, you watch the way they construct their stories, and you say, “That's very Canadian.”

That's what we need to make sure we don't lose. If we make a story that's just about winners and losers, black and white, in that up or down kind of American dialogue.... Forgive me if there are lawyers in the room, but I will tell you, having employed U.S. lawyers and Canadian lawyers, there's a difference in how they approach the problem. My U.S. lawyers want to win. My Canadian lawyers want to get a deal done. You see that in every story you read, when you look at it and say, “Oh, okay, we heard different, a little bit different.” But we are different, and that difference is hugely important.

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much.

That was an excellent session, I think. I want to thank Mr. Smith, Mr. Knight, and Mr. Holmes for really giving us a lot to think about. I think you engaged everyone. Normally I would have something to ask, but I think all the bases were covered by everyone's questions. I want to thank you for coming. You really shed light on a lot of things.

Thank you for your inspiration, Mr. Knight.

We will now move to an in camera session. It will take about a minute for us to get that process going, so we will recess for a minute.

[Proceedings continue in camera]