Evidence of meeting #148 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was language.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I appreciate all of our witnesses here today. I appreciate the information that they're bringing to us.
I would like to start with Siipiisai’pia’ki, Ms. Vivian Ayoungman.
I've been in the Old Sun College. They are doing some very, very interesting things, but you're right about the people who have the knowledge and how even though you are a very large band, with significant resources, getting them to the right place is critical. I think you have identified....
My colleague was mentioning funding in the sense that we've had organizations here, national organizations, that have said, “Give the funding to us, and we'll figure out what to do with it.” I don't think that's what you would suggest. Am I right?
Vivian (Siipiisai’pia’ki) Ayoungman
You are correct.
When it happened the last time—well, I don't want to go back, but one of the realities was that there was the aboriginal languages initiative, and I think unnecessary red tape was created. In our experience here in Alberta, there was funding, but it was channelled through organizations and it took forever for it to get from one entity to the provincial entity and for the crumbs to finally get to the communities. As far as I'm concerned, there's a lot of waste along the way. We critically need the funding at the local level, because as I've said, we know what it is that we need.
We need to work with our ceremonial knowledge keepers and our seniors who are speakers of the language. There are two distinct groups, if you understand where I'm coming from.
Vivian (Siipiisai’pia’ki) Ayoungman
These ceremonial knowledge keepers have critical knowledge that provides the context. The others who are seniors have life experiences, most of them boarding school-related types of experiences.
At our local level is where we need to decide where we can get the greatest mileage. Internally we can organize and say you do the research; you do the interviews; you do the apps; you do the teacher training; you do the implementation. We need to approach it on all fronts, but within our first nation is where we need to determine how we'll approach it.
Conservative
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
I mean, you have an excellent council that has to work with a large number of things in your community, but at least the decision would be made within your community. If the money comes to that council directly, rather than through other layers, it gives you the opportunity to work with that funding at that level of decision-making.
Vivian (Siipiisai’pia’ki) Ayoungman
Exactly. To us, it's really important, because within our nation, we are unique. We have a unique history. We are all at different places in terms of where we are with our culture. Some people may overlook all of the ceremonial and historical stuff. At our nation, it's critical. Nobody else can ever tell us how to be Siksika and how to go about doing that.
Vivian (Siipiisai’pia’ki) Ayoungman
We have to do it internally, and we have been doing it very successfully at Old Sun College by creating 37 courses. To implement those 37 courses, we need to keep researching them. A lot of it, with local knowledge.... There are still people who have the oral stories.
We're not interested in listening to somebody else's oral stories; it's our local stories that we need to gather. It's our apps that we need to develop. We developed a language app. It's a very important tool, but it's very costly to do apps.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
I really appreciate that.
I think that with regard to the bill, Ms. Joe, you're explaining that in the consultation on the specifics, as we have heard from others, you feel very left out of this process. You're not the only one we've heard from who was very concerned at the lack of consultation.
Once again, I'll give you a few seconds to explain how critical that was do. We've heard what you had to do, but how left out did you feel when you received this thing and realized who else had already known about it?
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
For us, of course—I think for any indigenous woman—languages are so important, because we pass them on to our children. We sing the songs and tell the stories in our language. That's the first....
The song transcends so much. Even though my auntie had Down syndrome, she knew the songs and she could sing me the songs. Unfortunately, when I went into elementary school, I lost that. I started not speaking my own language, and then I moved away and didn't have the support. Now I can't teach my own children the language. My mother can't either, because she was in residential school, and my grandmother is gone.
We need to have these resources archived and made into apps—
Conservative
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
No, we can't share that. I think we have a lot. A lot of women have a lot to share about what we want to see with this act, because it's going to affect our generations, our children.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
You've said some very specific things about the legislation. Do you believe you can fix it with those amendments?
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
As was stated, I appreciate the time here to bring the concerns we have. I'm concerned about what's going to happen after this legislation is passed. I want to ensure that the funding gets to the communities, and that it's the knowledge keepers, the fluent speakers....
Sometimes our own local schools can help provide the support system to get the languages out there in our territory. In Merritt, B.C., we have Nicola Valley Institute of Technology.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Following up on Mr. Long, I think that's what he was asking. How do you see that getting to you? Where does it get to you? Does it get out through other organizations? Does it get out of the provincial...? How do you think it should get to you?
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
It depends from community to community. Some communities have their education systems set up. Some have their own community-led initiatives in place. I'm sure the Inuit and the Métis have their own systems in place. I know that for my own territory, we would probably be going through our bands and our local community college. We would need to make sure the elders are being treated fairly.
Conservative
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
It's definitely up to the community, but it definitely needs to go to the distinct groups that need this funding.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
Mr. Saganash is with us today.
Mr. Saganash, you have the floor for seven minutes, and I believe you would like to share your time with Ms. Jolibois.
NDP
Romeo Saganash NDP Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Thanks, Madam Chair. I was going to mention that I was going to share my time with my colleague, but since you did....
First of all, thanks to all of the presenters. The things you have said to this committee today have been things I have been saying over the years. I'm honoured to be sitting with my colleague today; we're two of the indigenous MPs in the House of Commons who are fluent speakers,.
I think you all spoke about the urgency of the matter with respect to indigenous languages in this country. I'm saddened to see that the purposes of this bill, under item 5(b)(i), suggest that we need to assess the status of indigenous languages in this country when we all know that there is urgency in the matter.
I'll be sharing my time with my colleague, but I want to ask you first, Francyne, and this is going to be my only question. The government and other leaders in the country have bragged that this legislation has been “codeveloped”. When I attended the technical briefing right after the bill was introduced in the House of Commons, one of the questions I asked—and the parliamentary secretary who's in front of me right now can attest to this—was when the Government of Canada stopped considering the Native Women's Association of Canada as a national organization.
Women are the language keepers. We all know that. In every indigenous culture and tradition, they're the language keepers. I learned my language from my mom and my grandma. I asked that question. There was no answer to that question. When did that stop? How come you weren't involved in this so-called codevelopment of this legislation?
This is pretty different, in my view—and I said that in my speech when the bill was introduced—from co-drafting. I don't think the AFN held the pen in drafting this legislation. When did that stop? I'd like to get that clear first.
President, Native Women's Association of Canada
I have to say, having been president since the fall of 2016, that NWAC has unfortunately been overlooked quite often. We have been told by government organizations, government departments, that the woman's voice is already represented by the other three national indigenous organizations. However, the reason we have this missing and murdered indigenous women's inquiry is that the Native Women's Association had the Sisters in Spirit program that demonstrated there were over 500 missing and murdered indigenous women in Canada.
There are definitely gaps happening, and when you have an organization of indigenous women already here in Ottawa and in every province and in two of the territories who want to work with this government because it will improve the communities, it saddens me to see that we're being ignored sometimes.