Canadian Heritage Committee on May 2nd, 2019

[Scott Hutton]

—whether it's the CRTC that should be doing this or not. Going back to the original question, certainly all countries, legislatures and regulators are struggling with the same issues. We certainly have interacted and done research, and we have a team that scours the world to find out what is happening on this front. Everything is in a development period right now. The European Union has certainly looked at and studied the issues closely and has started to enact some legislation. We're still probably far enough away—with the exception of maybe tax issues—from full implementation, and enforceable implementation, on that front.

It seems to be clear that countries that have traditionally sought to intervene in the media fields to support the objectives of their own interventions—reflecting Canada's nature, producing Canadian content—are all taking some form of action to change and evolve their systems to address the changes occurring as a result of digital broadcasting.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Are there any changes in those that you've not made reference to in the study you've referred to? Could you name a country that you think might be leading in terms of the values that you reflected in the principles you've given us?

[Scott Hutton]

I can't say that any one has got that complete suite of services just yet. I think if you're looking at areas where you can ensure that you treat both local companies and international companies on a similar level, but again, also adapt to each way forward, those are certainly areas we're looking at. There's no full suite of services yet. I think we're still in development—

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

There probably never will be if it's evolving.

[Scott Hutton]

—with lots of plans on that front.

What I think the CRTC is looking for is that, you know...we don't have all the answers to the exact “hows”, but it's essentially to make sure that we make the public policy decision to intervene or not. Then if we do decide to intervene, we give a body or a mandate to some entity to be able to implement those and enforce them.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

I happen to believe that we have one of the best systems in the world with the CRTC.

Am I finished?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

You are finished, sir.

We are now going to Mr. Nantel for two minutes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Gentlemen, I must congratulate you for the speed with which you produced your report. Certainly, the CRTC process normally has to be slow. You are not asked to react so quickly all the time. You are all about a long-term vision. Your report was delivered properly and quite quickly, I feel. We all expect there to be changes. I have three quick questions specifically on that and, of course, I will ask you for very short answers because we have less than a minute and a half now.

In your opinion, what interim measures can be taken, before the legislation is reformed, to accommodate digital?

[Scott Hutton]

In our opening presentation, we mentioned the measures that are in place at the moment. Naturally, we are focusing on the issue of music on the radio, because that is clearly under threat these days, especially on the francophone side. So we are looking at our mechanisms to see how the radio industry, which supports music in a way, could support it better, so that the music industry can adapt in the future.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Of course.

[Scott Hutton]

We are looking to establish measurement mechanisms, be they for music or television, in order to clearly define Canadian content and, basically, to be ready for the future and the possible changes. Even if there are no changes, we have to be able to properly measure and understand what is happening. Of course, we are also focusing on CBC/Radio-Canada, which will have large digital footprints in the future. We are meeting with their officials. That is what the CRTC is doing to prepare.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Okay.

On the topic of the consultations, we see that you are in the process of examining the costs associated with Canadian content, including the digital platforms of our Canadian players. Can we then deduce that you are thinking about regulating Canadian content on some digital platforms, the Canadian ones but not the international ones, given that it is all the legislation allows you to do at the moment? I can already hear our people yelling and saying that the Americans now have an open bar, whereas they are being asked to perform miracles with nothing in a declining market.

[Scott Hutton]

I don't think the public notice you mention talks about regulating Canadian web content at the moment. I think it talks about measurements and definitions.

From our previous consultations, we have also come to understand that programming produced by our traditional broadcasters also ends up on the Internet. There was some talk about requesting credits for those expenditures.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

So you are looking at that?

[Scott Hutton]

Those are the issues we are examining at the moment.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Okay.

I have to stop there. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you.

We have time for two speakers, one from each side, six minutes each.

Let's start with Mr. Boissonnault.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Okay, well, it's 2019, so I do have to say one thing: that I think her story, their story, his story are all histories and that when we add all of them up, they are the sum total of our combined experience that makes multiple histories. I think it's also important to say that our government is working on reviewing the broadcast system and that we want laws that are for the 21st century. We've just come off a lot of work on the copyright review, on our side. I'm interested in creators and in artists getting their fair share. That's been about a year of our life and is important.

At the same time, I'm also interested in making sure that consumers are able to pay their bills. We've made a lot of investments in the system. I think you gentlemen know—$172 million in the Canada Media Fund, $675 million for the CBC. Telefilm and the National Film Board have also had significant top-ups. We've invested $595 million in a fund for independent journalism, and then we have Canada's first creative export strategy of $125 million.

We're doing our part. We're trying to make sure that this system is responsive and adapting to these new challenges.

I'm curious as to how much thinking the CRTC has done. It's not just taxing consumers, which would be paid by the consumers, right? How many companies would actually pay the levy?

[Scott Hutton]

Okay, we're back to that one.

Essentially the same companies that are paying for it now would see a reduction in what they are paying and we would be asking the other Canadian distributors to contribute slightly more than what they are currently contributing.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

And we would also be asking consumers to pay.

[Scott Hutton]

Consumers pay their bills and this is included in their bills.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

But a new tax would be more money that consumers would have to pay.

[Scott Hutton]

That's not what we put forward. From the regulatory side, we made statements that there was enough money in the system at this point in time, and the proposition here is to just spread the level across all of the players in the system, as opposed to just a handful of them.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

In comparison with other countries, how much do Canadians, on average, pay for Internet access or phone access? Are we high, are we in the middle, are we low? Are we the best jurisdiction in the world? Where are we in the rankings?

[Scott Hutton]

You're stepping out of some of my.... We're certainly in charge of broadcasting, but if I can give you a high, medium, low ranking, in cable distribution, compared with the U.S., we are lower. The products are different across various nations, but if you're looking at developed nations, we're lower than the U.S., and probably on par with many of the other ones. When you're looking at the Internet and wireless services, you see that international studies show that we're closer to the higher end.