Canadian Heritage Committee on May 2nd, 2019

[Sheehan Carter]

As we look back over the history of communications for more than 100 years, what you tend to see is that models don't disappear. They diminish and they find a position within the overall system. There were concerns at one time that radio would disappear. Certainly, the role of television changes, just as the role of radio has changed and relatively stabilized. Again, it becomes difficult to say what the future will hold too far out, but we can certainly see a definite decline right now, with no obvious plateau in the future.

[Scott Hutton]

Certainly if they develop, there's no apparent vehicle to currently replace the contributions that the existing broadcasters make to the system. Local news, for example, is certainly under threat. Clearly we're concerned about that.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

How has the changing nature of the media landscape affected the accessibility of Canadian news content for Canadian consumers, in particular low-income Canadians?

[Scott Hutton]

The CRTC has put in place a number of measures to ensure that television services remain affordable. Prior to looking at the Harnessing Change report, we ran what we called the Let's Talk TV proceeding, in which we looked at a number of measures, including producing programming and what's under threat, and we made changes to support local news in that case. We also made changes to ensure a $25 basic cable package that included local news and information. We worked on ensuring pick-and-pay or more practical options to being able to develop your own package to address those issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

We will now go back to Mr. Shields for five minutes.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Madam Chair, I'll be sharing my time with Mr. Yurdiga.

You made a couple of comments that I found interesting. You said that it's contributing to Canada's democracy. When I take the word “history” and split it in half, it's “his story”. For anybody who writes or reads news, it's somebody's version. I'm not as tied to what you think is factual news. I probably have a different view from yours.

When you said it achieves the social objectives of the act, the hair on the back of my neck stood up and I thought about whose social objectives. It's like saying you're from the government, that you're here to help. I view that a little differently from how you may, so run like hell now.

News is somebody's story. It's their version of what happened. When police take witness statements, they get 43 different statements from whoever viewed whatever happened. I have a different view from how you may see the news.

With those comments, I'll turn it to Mr. Yurdiga.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

You don't have a response? I'll just go right in.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

I think it's safe to say there's probably no real response to that.

[Scott Hutton]

I could give him one, but he's....

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

If you would, I—

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

If you want.

[Scott Hutton]

You are parliamentarians. You set the broadcast policy for Canada. I am a regulator and I'm to implement it, and my objectives require me to be concerned about news and ensuring that a variety of sources are available; that is part of my job. That's my answer: we have that objective, and that's what we're required to do. That's why I highlight that it is under duress and why we need to pay close attention to it.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

That's a great response.

Talk about the revenue streams. Obviously, they are changing daily. So many more players are providing content. How is that affecting the big players now? Advertising is a huge business. They're going to the best bang for the dollar, and it's usually not the traditional method of how we watch whatever we watch. Is that affecting the viability of some of these different media, whether it's radio, newsprint, TV and streaming?

[Sheehan Carter]

Absolutely. It's worth making a distinction between the advertising-based model and the subscription-based model. We go to some lengths in the report to describe the subscription-based model as much more stable, and perhaps a better way of looking forward to support the production of Canadian content.

Within the advertising market, there are significant differences between television and radio. Radio advertising revenues have remained more stable, although they've seen some decline, certainly. In particular, our conventional over-the-air television stations, which are largely dependent upon advertising revenue, have experienced the greatest decline and the greatest difficulties with the advertising market.

There are some signs that there may be some changes, some recoveries and some money going back to television to some extent, but not in any way recovering from the declines we've seen in the last few years.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Just an interesting comment here. When I was growing up, I did things differently. My children have done things differently—the CDs and everything else. The younger generation, my grandchildren, they're totally different. They're more attuned to YouTube. They are their own reporters—they do their own skits and everything else. That generation is going to change everything again. Are we prepared for the YouTube generation? I like to call them that, because that's the medium they're playing in at this point.

[Scott Hutton]

Our suggestion is that we need legislative changes and new tools to be able to help the regulatory system adapt to those particular environments. YouTube can contribute to Canadian content. We can all post there. It is contributing right now. It's one of the more open systems. Canadians can post and receive revenue from YouTube. In that case, how does one find that Canadian story in the sea of what is available on YouTube? For example, that's why we've raised many concerns with discoverability—it's the term everybody is using. How do you find that piece of Canadian content in the plethora of content available?

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you. Am I done?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

You're actually out of time.

We now go to Mr. Hogg for five minutes.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

You were making reference to the change in option number four that you presented.... I'm interested in the work of Bill Drayton. He's saying that in the last 25 years, we're going ten times faster, at 300 times the scale and with 3,000 times the impact, in terms of change and the processes occurring with change.

If that is in fact the environmental reality we're dealing with—and you've outlined some of the objectives in your legislation and have talked about a few principles. I wonder if those are grounded in a set of values, because I think if we are moving that fast, then we have to have a better grasp of the values. You've made reference to Canadians and the role we're playing in terms of a mandate for Canadians. How would you describe the values reflected in the principles you've talked about and the regulations you've made reference to?

[Scott Hutton]

Well, for us at the CRTC, being a regulator, being a creature of statute, the values we must implement are those prescribed in Canada's broadcasting policy found in section 3 of the Broadcasting Act. That's where we take our marching orders, and those values have been set by government and by parliamentarians such as yourselves for us to implement.

There's a series of them. There's actually a long list, but I often summarize them. We need to bring information and programming to Canadians, and make sure that Canadians can be entertained and enlightened and be able to contribute towards democracy.

On the reverse side, we need a system that produces those stories about Canada and brings them to Canadians and to the world. Those are the easy ways to summarize all of the objectives there.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

You made reference to the fact that this, obviously, is happening all over the world, and particularly in the developed countries. Can we learn things from other jurisdictions, both in terms of the practices that are perhaps being implemented there, and whether they're coming to option 4, or to other options? Is the CRTC still relevant in terms of that, or should there be another oversight structure that looks at more adaptable...? Should the legislation be changed to give you more flexibility? My concern—my reference is coming—

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

I just want to jump in here. I believe he had responded before that he can't answer regarding the relevance of the CRTC because that's an issue for us. I'm just repeating the answer that I heard from Mr. Hutton, but I just wanted to make sure we didn't put him in the same box again.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Am I putting you in a box?

[Scott Hutton]

I will have an answer. I won't tell you, you know—

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

You won't tell me your answer.