Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 4th, 2016

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Perhaps we could start with Ms. Lauzon.

[Élaine Lauzon]

In the Quebec school system and the federated sport system, our biggest problem is working in silos. We are desperately trying to break down those silos, but there are sort of unwritten rules. This means it is very difficult to penetrate the system in order to train school coaches. Getting access to those coaches gets very complicated.

At Égale Action, we are trying to get into the school system. We have established a training program that specifically addresses coaches who coach girls, whether at school or in the general public. We will be putting on a training program in one of the school systems in Montérégie. We think we are managing to make a chink in the wall.

In the schools, there are many more women teaching children in regular classes, but it is the complete opposite for physical education courses. There is a much higher number of men there. You are correct to say that female role models are not as numerous in the schools.

On the subject of male role models, however, I think the teachers or coaches who get adequate training for interacting with these girls are going to be just as good at getting them to achieve the level of development they aspire to. Yes, female role models are the priority, but I think our male role models need help in how to work with our girls and make sure they make adequate progress. We have a way to go yet and there are silos to break down and mindsets to change in the systems, but it is doable. We have started to do it, gradually, and it is working quite well.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Ms. Sandmeyer-Graves and Ms. Lofstrom, do you have anything to add on that?

[Karin Lofstrom, Former Executive Director, Consultant, KL Sports Consulting, Canadian Association for the Advancement of Women and Sport and Physical Activity]

We've seen some good examples of male coaches who understand that it's different to coach females, and sometimes they bring in a graduated player, a female player, to serve as a role model, as an assistant coach.

The Canadian Collegiate Athletic Association has a female coach mentorship program. Graduated players come back and work with the program. Again, a lot of head coaches are male, but it's a training ground and it also gives that female experience.

I think Élaine is right in the sense that we need to educate as we're trying to get more women coaches. In the meantime, it's men who are coaching the daughters and the female athletes. Getting them that education for the psychosocial factors would make a difference.

In terms of the physiology, the tactical kind of training piece is quite similar. It's really on that whole psychosocial side of girls and women as athletes, as coaches, and as leaders where the difference is that male coaches need to work on addressing.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Would you go so far as to say that we even have to engage in positive discrimination to try to achieve a better balance between men and women, when it comes to coaches and teachers?

I do not want to invent a new problem, but I am trying to put myself in the shoes of a girl watching the boys play basketball. Only the best ones will be chosen to be on the team, girls and boys together. The teacher, who is a role model, is six foot two. I find it hard to imagine that we are going to resolve this issue, even with a lot of education and better training for male teachers.

[Dr. Penny Werthner]

I would like to add a couple of things. If I bring it back to the educational system, I might say that we do need to go back to the training of physical education teachers. I think the federal and provincial governments need to get together on that. In many provinces, there's no training of that in teacher education. We would solve a lot of problems. I believe strongly that if we had training of physical education teachers, both men and women, then you would have a lot more women teaching play, and not necessarily sport in the school system, but physical activity.

I would also argue—a second piece—bring it back and make it a large part of the curriculum that we've lost in almost every province.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Mr. Breton.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

The next questioner is Mr. Kitchen from the Conservatives.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you all for being here today.

Dr. Werthner, I'm just hoping you might be able to throw some statistics at us.

In the previous study that was done by the House back in 1998, they suggested that 29% of all coaches in 1992 were female. You've indicated to us that 11% of high-performance coaches are female at this point in time, if I took that correctly.

Do you have any statistics on the participation rates of coaches in the general physical activity body in all sports?

[Dr. Penny Werthner]

Perhaps somebody else has numbers. What I would say that we know from the Coaching Association of Canada is that we do have women coaches at the introductory level of sport. In their education system, that's at level 1 , 2, and to some degree 3, although they've changed those levels now at competition development.

So there are women coaching. What I would say in Canada is that we don't do enough skill development so they're actually teaching effective skills to our children and budding athletes. I would say that of both male and women coaches. To come back to your question, what we do know is that when coaches rise to the provincial and national level, the drop-off is significant. There are a variety of reasons for that.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Can you give us some of those?

[Dr. Penny Werthner]

I think coaching still needs to be seen as a paid profession. What we see at the varsity sport level, so in the university system, is some pretty good equity around women and male coaching varsity teams, certainly coaching women's teams, and it's because it's a viable profession. Our difficulty at the national level is there are very few positions where you can actually be paid. I think that's definitely a barrier, but I would argue the other barrier is that sport remains the last bastion of maleness. It is a very difficult environment for one individual coach in an individual sport to be in.

On Marion's three points that she finished with in terms of putting some gender equity numbers around national women coaching, I think that's absolutely crucial. I would add that the other crucial component to that would be to create a supportive environment with a number of women coaches so we can actually create an environment that makes it viable for them to continue.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

A lot of the emphasis seems to be on university level high performance athletes. I think we all would agree that we need to have a good foundation. You don't build a house from the roof down; you build it from the basement up. You build that foundation, and you make a good solid foundation, in particular for girls and women in sport. We've talked about that a bit. We've heard suggestions about changing the education system so we make certain we're educating our youth so that as they progress they develop those levels.

One thing I've noticed over my years in coaching is that there isn't a great deal of emphasis on bringing women into the coaching role. A lot of times girls get involved in sport, they participate in playing soccer, and their parents take them to that when they're little. Then they get involved with hockey, or baseball, or community softball, but there isn't an emphasis at that level for them to get involved in coaching and to start them learning the rules of the game. I'm hearing that it sounds like it should be coming from women to emphasize that to these young girls. Right now, we don't have that position. We have males trying to put that role model out to get them involved. The coaching programs out there don't seem to emphasize women getting involved.

I'm wondering if someone would want to comment on that.

[Marion Lay]

There are a couple of things.

In B.C., in Coquitlam, we had a human rights case that went forward to say that the facility usage was dominated by young boys and boys' teams, and young girls were not allowed to play on the fields or in the various facilities. On that ruling, Coquitlam now has the most robust participation of girls and women in sport. They also have one of the largest number of women coaching at the lower level around their sport.

At some point, I think we need to do some audits around the country to look at the uses of facility and what some of the tools are, legal or otherwise, to bring about change to allow gender equity in our facilities.

I think we also need to look at some of the best practices. In the elementary schools in Alberta we have the Ever Active Schools model, and in B.C. we have Action Schools. They are working with elementary school teachers to put physical activity into the daily routine of their students. They have ten-minute breaks where they get up and are physically active during subject time. They also design their playgrounds so they have facilities or active spaces like running over rocks, getting their proprioception developed, and things that allow them to start to be able to move and be part of sport.

The other thing we found is that teachers on the women's side don't wear high heels to elementary school in B.C. anymore, and their back problems have decreased. They also have to get up and participate with the kids. These little ten-minute episodic breaks make a difference.

I think you have to build...that's what I"m trying to get us to look at. What are some of our successes, and how do we build on those successes? If we have elementary school and that's happening, then can we get those teachers who are doing activity into coaching? How do we approach that?

I think we can find the solutions if we focus in on what it is we want to achieve.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

There's a study out of Texas Woman's University on girls participating in football. One of the biggest things it was talking about was the love of sport. Their biggest emphasis was that girls participated because of the love of sport.

How do we emphasise that in our programs?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You will have to answer that in the next group of questions, because we've run out of time.

Ms. Trudel, maybe you might allow that question to be answered in your seven minutes.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Yes, please.

[Karin Lofstrom]

I think that love and that connection to sport is what probably drives girls and boys. Some of the factors are different for the girls' love of the sport. It's often about being accepted in that environment. That social connection is the driving force for them to then love the sport. For boys, it might be about their performance, and then their teammates will accept them in the group. Often for the girls it's having that social connection with others. Then they love it, and they want to stay because their friends are there, it's fun, and all those other kinds of pieces.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you.

My question is for everyone.

Hello to the people participating by videoconference.

You spoke about the love of the sport just now. We have also talked about infrastructure, and in particular locker rooms. There have to be appropriate facilities for it to be easy for women and girls to practise sport. In the existing programs or the ones that should be put in place, what could persuade girls and women to engage in sport and like it more?

[Élaine Lauzon]

Certainly, even if our facilities are not all up to standard in terms of safety, for example, there are things that can be done, for example when it comes to the schedule and the availability of slots for male sports as compared to female sports. We can say the same thing about skating rinks. I am talking about blocks in the rink schedule that are reserved for women and girls and blocks that are reserved for boys' hockey, and so on.

There is certainly a shortage of facilities, but we should at least manage the existing facilities properly, so it is fair for boys and girls and for women and men.

[Karin Lofstrom]

I would say, on getting girls into programs, that it's about finding opportunities in the communities where they live. It's not about them signing up for an eight-week program but trying it and bringing a friend. We know for sure that girls and women are more likely try something if they're doing it with someone else. Have those kinds of pieces, and make them low cost, for sure. For the parents who are not sure if they want to have their daughters at that activity level, they'll try it if it doesn't cost too much. Definitely we can see those kinds of pieces.

I think also having female leaders in those programs really encourages the young girls. If they get there, they have a fun time, and they have these role models they want to spend time with, for sure that keeps them around.

Élaine raised some questions around the infrastructure. A lot of the facilities have had grandfathered leagues in them forever. If we want to give more girls and women access, the policies around facility allocation and those types of things have to be looked at. We have to start from scratch and give everyone time in the good prime-time slots and those types of things. I mean, you don't want parents bringing their 10-year-olds to play at ten o'clock at night.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

It is often said that female role models in sports encourage women to take that path.

My question is for all of you. What could we do to have more women in sport? Is there training? The objective is always to encourage physical activity in the long term, regardless of age, but when our Olympic athletes, or people who are really in professional sports, get to a certain age, they have to quit.

Is there a training program for them? What kind of support could we provide for them to encourage them to become coaches or physical education teachers, or to stay connected with sport?

[Karin Lofstrom]

We're seeing it in age groups, in national team, and in university programs. Coaches, as part of their team-building, will have their athletes go to either an officials training program or a coaching training program. That way they get to experience those pieces. When their hockey team, let's say, is doing a hockey camp, the players who took the coaching education will run the camps for the young girls. They get a taste of coaching to see if they like it. It gives them an opportunity to think about maybe being a coach.

It's about giving them the opportunity for perhaps officiating, or about getting them involved in their communities. Could they get involved as an athlete representative on the local sport community board so that they get the experience of being on a board? It's about exposing them to different opportunities. Sometimes you see university kids from teams going to coach at a high school or an elementary school. That way they can actually see if they like the coaching thing, or if they don't, or if they would rather organize events or volunteer on a board.

It's about giving them multiple experiences so that they get a taste of something that they may want to do in the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

We have about two minutes left. Ms. Lauzon had her hand up, Marion Lay had her hand up, and Dr. Werthner had her hand up.

If you want to share the two minutes, go for it.

We'll start with you, Ms. Lauzon.