Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 27th, 2016

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I'll be sharing my time with Ms. Dabrusin.

I only have one quick question.

Good morning, Minister. Thank you and your team for being here with us today.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Good morning and thank you.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I'd like to ask you questions about your personal experience.

Witnesses said that six times more girls than boys stop their sport at the age of 12, 13 or 14.

However, you didn't stop. You kept going. What did you do to continue to play the sport of your choice? Furthermore, does your 16-year-old daughter still play sports? If so, what is the formula for success? Can you share it with us, please?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Those are good questions; thank you.

I'll answer the second one quickly.

No, my 16-year-old daughter is not in sport. She was, and she moved on. To be fair, she's a very artsy child. She's in band, music, drama, theatre, and what have you. She's gone with the arts. She didn't find a place in sport, and that's a huge problem.

In my own experience, at that point in my life, I was lucky enough to find Paralympic sport. If I had stayed in mainstream sport, I probably wouldn't have stayed in sport, but because I happened to be exposed to Paralympic sport, which addressed my unique needs in sport through their system, I stayed involved in sport and flourished.

I can't guarantee you that if I had just stayed in mainstream sport I would have continued either. I would hope so; I'm pretty active, sporty, and competitive, and so probably, but I don't know if it would have been because of the system or despite the system.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you.

We've been talking about women and girls a lot, and we're having a gender discussion, but one of the questions I have for you is about our transgender populations, and how we make sure that people who are transgender also feel included within our sport system and have opportunities. Is our government doing something on that?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you for that question. It is a really important part of this issue.

I'm going to let these guys talk. I keep saying that, and I never let them talk.

We have been working with the Canadian Association for the Advancement of Women and Sport and Physical Activity and with Canadian Interuniversity Sport on creating policies around transgender and participation in sport. Quite a few human rights cases, particularly in interuniversity sport, have highlighted the need for some kind of systemic change in this area.

Right now we're at the working group policy development stage. Is that fair? Have we moved beyond that?

[Alan Zimmerman]

In general, we're an advocate for sport that's fair, safe, and open for all, and that's the underpinning. We ask our organizations, as part of their funding agreements, to ensure that they have policies in place that makes sure that sport is fair and equitable for all populations.

The issue of transgender participation in sport has flared up from time to time, and most recently the work and decisions that have been made at the International Olympic Committee level has created that issue again.

The Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport developed a new policy guideline entitled “Creating Inclusive Environments for Trans Participants in Canadian Sport – Guidance for Sport Organizations”. Sport Canada participated in the development of that guidance, and that's what it is. It's a guidance to sport organizations, and it's been provided to all sport organizations. This was developed through extensive consultation and, as I said, it's now been provided to the organizations.

That's about where we're at with this now. It's an issue that's there, and we've tried to address it in this way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have about a minute.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

That's awesome.

The other part of that I was concerned about was when I saw Olympic coverage this year and there were a lot of questions about gender testing. If a woman had a certain amount of testosterone, there were a lot of questions about her ability to access sports. We don't do the same kind of testing on men. There isn't a whole lot of testing in the Olympics about whether a person qualifies to be a man in that same way.

How are we working with the Olympic Committee on that question about gender testing?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I think the phrase now is “gender verification”, which is a little softer. Many organizations have gender verification policies. The IOC doesn't regularly conduct testing, but athletes do have what's called a biological passport. At some point in their life if they've had this very inappropriate test, they will not be subjected to it again.

The idea that gender verification is alive and well is of concern. The IOC has taken a step back in its aggressive pursuit of this as a systemic policy. I wouldn't say it's rampant, but it still goes on very directly, at least at the visual level, and athletes' protests are filed on these grounds. I know it's of concern for the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport.

I don't know if you guys have anything else to add.

No? That's good.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Now we go to Madam Sansoucy.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning to you all.

Minister, I'm sorry I missed your presentation. But I'll make a comment before I ask my question.

As the representative of a predominantly rural constituency, I can tell you that you have pleased many people in small municipalities when you talked about community centres. These are really at the heart of the social life of the villages we represent. They are of great importance. Small municipalities are struggling to meet their financial obligations and the needs of the people.

My question is of a different kind. I would like to draw a parallel, but I don't know whether it's relevant. You can decide.

Last year, the committee did a study on dance. We studied the artist's cycle, training, professional life, and found that little emphasis was placed on the reintegration into the so-called civilian life, once the career of the artist was over.

Do you think our female athletes could also face a similar challenge?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Absolutely.

I think there are three stages in an athlete's career: introduction to sport, high-performance sport and transition, after the athlete won the medal, goes to university and wants to have a normal life after intensive competitions. Since athletes feel this is a very important issue for them, we work a lot with AthletesCAN and national organizations.

What comes after winning medals? How do you transition to everyday life? I think there's definitely a parallel to dance.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Earlier, we talked about teenage girls dropping out.

Personally, I have four children. Teenagers who play sports often reach the elite level. They then make a choice, either to continue at that level or to drop out. That's also an age at which they are wondering about their career choices. Since life after sport is difficult, teenagers wonder about what it means to become an athlete or to continue activities in civilian life.

Could the fact that there are few female athlete models who succeeded in their professional life after sport—that's actually a challenge for female athletes—also be a factor in the teenage girls' decision to drop out when they think about their career and life choices?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Yes, absolutely.

When a young man realizes that he will not be part of the NHL, he can decide to quit hockey, given that he will not be able to turn it into a career. I think we must give athletes, children and young people the opportunity to play sports recreationally, without imposing the intensity and long hours required for high-performance sport, in order to encourage them to persevere in those activities.

In addition, it must become a way of life. It's not just about competition or career; it's a way of life in society. When someone is active and plays sports, they are taking part in the community. We must change our attitude toward sport. For instance, in Australia, sport is part of the culture. On Saturdays, all people do is take part in recreational activities; they play sports together. But we're not there in Canada.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I find that interesting. My understanding is that it's about presenting sport as a lifestyle, not just as a competitive activity.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

That's right.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Throughout life, there are changes. Given that the energy level decreases with age, this must be really presented as a lifestyle. Among all the sports that are available to teens, there has to be a competitive component for those interested in it, but there must also be a more participatory component to promote regular physical activity.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

We have the model Canadian Sport for Life or Au Canada, le sport c'est pour la vie in French. I'm not sure whether anyone has told you about it before. There are various stages in the life of a participant or an athlete. It starts with the child who is active and ends with an active life.

Sport Canada and the Canadian sport system focus on the higher performance stages. It's the recreational sport system that must focus on the stages of active children and active life. I think it's a continuum. We must act at every stage in the lives of Canadians.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

That answers my questions. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That does it for this session.

I want to thank the minister for coming, and I want to thank my colleagues for being such very strong participants.

I will ask us to recess for a few minutes until we move into the second hour of questioning.

Thank you again.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you very much for having me here today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Let's begin the next session, please.

We have with us some real superstars. We have Madam Lanni Marchant, who I gather is the fastest runner in Canada, if not globally, and we have Mandy Bujold, an athlete with Boxing Canada. She is appearing by video conference from Kitchener, Ontario. They are presenting as individuals on this issue.

Madam Bujold, we will start with you. You have 10 minutes to present what you want to say. Madam Marchant can do 10 minutes as well, and then we will begin the interactive question-and-answer piece.

[Mandy Bujold, Athlete, Boxing Canada, As an Individual]

First of all I just want to thank you for having me before this committee. I'm really excited to be here and hopefully to share some of my experiences with all of you.

I have been on the Canadian national boxing team for the past 12 years. I have travelled to provincial, national, and international competitions, as well as four major games. My sport experience might be a little different from that of most other Olympians. I started boxing much later in life. I didn't come from a family that was really sport-oriented, but my parents did see enough sort of desire to still put us in sports.

When I was younger, my parents would me in things like baton twirling and rhythmic gymnastics. I went to those sports and I wasn't really good at them, and they weren't things that I really enjoyed, so I just automatically assumed that I was not an athlete.

It wasn't until later in life, when I followed my brother to a boxing club, that I fell in love with a sport. Even in high school, after grade 10, when gym class was no longer mandatory, I no longer took gym class.

Finding this sport of boxing is what got me interested. Initially it was just for fitness. I think I just had the right mentors and coaches around me who taught me the sport in a way that helped me really develop and become comfortable with the sport. Then when I made the decision to compete, that decision was on me. It was my decision to get in there and take it to another level.

Since then, obviously I have been very involved in sport. I've also become a coach. I've also become a referee and judge, and I have sat on other panels and different boards representing women in sport.

I have a love for sport. If there is some way that I can encourage the younger generation to get involved and to pick up any sport, I take every opportunity to do that. I'm involved in a few other organizations, including True Sport and Fast and Female, which you've probably heard of. I try to take every opportunity to go to schools and do different presentations to try to get our community to be more active.

I think that's a really important thing. Canada has come a long way, even since I initially started competing, but I do believe that there is a lot more that can be done to increase the interest of young girls and women in sport, coaching, and all the above.

If there's anything that I can share, I would be more than happy to do so.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Madam Bujold. I'm sure we're going to have a lot of questions for you.

Ms. Marchant, please begin.