Evidence of meeting #51 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was council.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
We started at 10 minutes after four, so giving us the hour, we should be finished by 10 minutes after five, and we have Mr. Maguire, Mr. Samson, and Mr. Nantel to come. That's 15 minutes, and we only have 10 minutes left. Given that the bells begin at 5:15, do you want to round this off to another five minutes, and then we will have the bells?
What does the committee feel?
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
I guess we could have five-minute turns. You're not going to change the world in five minutes. You might try, but—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Apparently the system is freezing, and the technician cannot control the microphones. Now, that's all Greek to me; I don't know what it means, but—
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
All right. You had just come to the end, Mr. O'Regan. I'm going to go now to Mr. Maguire, to see whether we can continue.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Thank you.
I have a couple of questions, going back to your annual report in 2016, before they brought the new strategic plan forward. Your annual report indicated that you had identified four risks relating to the increased funding coming in and that sort of thing. Of course, there are risks with that, I guess. You've identified four of them.
One of them was the inability to demonstrate results. Can you just explain that? I think this is important. What have you done to alleviate that risk, and how do you mitigate it? Maybe my colleague Mr. Van Loan mentioned one of them earlier. What other areas can you—?
Director and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Council for the Arts
Actually, the most fundamental change we made, because we redesigned our programs to move from 147 to six, was to create for each program a logic model wherein outcomes are clearly articulated. We also identified measurements that are short-term, long-term, middle-term measurements, quantitative and qualitative. We also created and developed a framework of measurement with our research department.
Obviously, with the new portal and the new programs, the key is to be able to capture the different indicators and information and data that is needed to measure them. I would say that measurement has been a huge driver of the new funding model of the Canada Council.
What we're trying to do at the same time is avoid imposing on the artists or the artists' organizations the demonstration that everything they do is contributing to the outcome. It's our job at the Canada Council to measure this. We don't want to tell artists, “Do this, because it produces that outcome.” That's a road to mediocrity.
The Canada Council now is continuing to develop this, but we want to have the most robust system worldwide to measure the qualitative and quantitative impact of arts investment. Frankly, it has been a kind of obsession in all my life as a cultural expert to get to that point, and we are almost there.
Thank you for the question. It's a really important topic.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Looking as well at the Auditor General's view, I'm wondering whether you can indicate whether you think the Auditor General is going to conduct a review again—the new special examination that they're to look at—of your operations in the near future. Is it ongoing? Is it one of the things that were in there?
Director and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Council for the Arts
I was the vice-chair and the chair of the audit committee for the last audit, and one of the main recommendations 12 years ago was that we should have fewer programs. We fixed that; it's done. Now, when the Auditor General starts his special exam, the plan will be presented to our board—sometime in June, I guess—and they will start the work. I'm expecting that they will examine other aspects, but it's an ongoing kind of work. We have internal audits and external audits, plus the special exam. It's the very beginning of the process, and we'll see what the findings are, but I think we can say today that we addressed all the remarks that were made during the last special exam.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Your revenues from investments have increased from $12.5 million to $22.5 million—by some $10 million this year—or have just about doubled. Can you indicate, concerning the reference that said that the change is attributable to the increased returns on your global equity funds...? Can you elaborate on what kind of investments were made there?
Director and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Council for the Arts
We have a portfolio that is in fact supporting part of the operations of the Canada Council, and especially the prizes of the Canada Council. These are endowed funds. The reason we have more revenue is both that we rebalanced that portfolio and also—because we're always on a cash basis at the Canada Council—that we made some transactions while reorganizing the portfolio so that it generated more money.
We aim to be able to generate every year 4% or 5%. This is what we want in order to sustain the prizes and the special programs that are supported by the endowment.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Great.
Mr. Brault, thank you for your presentation and for the answers you have provided. This has been very interesting.
First of all, I find the idea that 25% of the new funds will be awarded to new applicants extremely interesting; that will be beneficial. I am always worried about the fact that it can be experts in certain areas who fill out the forms and always wind up being the ones who get the grants. We see that happening in several departments. And so I find it very interesting that you have dealt with that aspect.
There is something I heard, and I want to make sure that I understood correctly. Different people do the evaluations every year. If that is indeed the case, can you tell us more about that?
Director and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Council for the Arts
Until now, peer assessment committees changed every year. Under the new funding model, we will have a combination of both systems. On the one hand, there will be permanent peer assessment committees. It will be very transparent, as everyone will know right from the outset who will sit on those committees. The members of these committees will sit for two or three years. We understand that there has to be a continuing awareness of what is happening in a milieu. There will also be special committees to evaluate projects that are more out of the ordinary. We want to ensure that there is a variety of peers, and credibility.
I always tell my teams that I want everyone, whether they agree with the final decision or not, to be able to see that the people on the committee that made the decision are experts, and that the decisions are not always made by the same people.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Thank you.
How does the Canada Council for the Arts provide support to official language communities and to visible minorities?
Director and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Council for the Arts
We are required to provide particular programs to support linguistic minority communities. We meet with those communities and deal directly with them. We try to determine their overall priorities. We have an adjustment mechanism to support special initiatives to allow outreach by those communities so that they can find new markets.
Regarding diversity and inclusion, we have policies, special funds and an adjustment mechanism to help marginalized groups in society, or those who are grappling with systemic problems. Once the various projects of equal value are evaluated, we invest additional sums to help groups that suffer from discrimination.
The Canada Council for the Arts is certainly one of the most advanced organizations in the world when it comes to its management of diversity. That is what we are told constantly by colleagues from other countries when they come here to see how we do things. That will not change with the new model; on the contrary, it will be even better. We try to provide particular support to those groups and we are very attentive to that.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
If things work as well as you just explained, I am very impressed. Bravo!
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Ms. Dabrusin, you may use the minute I have left.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
Thank you.
Toronto has OCAD University, and they have Design Exchange, which supports design, but one issue that always comes up is what the role of design is in support of the arts. Could you elaborate on that.
Director and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Council for the Arts
On design in support of the arts, when we held, for instance, the summit last week in Montreal, we had many people from OCAD working with us as experts. We realize that the triangle of cultural entrepreneur, digital entrepreneur, and universities or academics in the arts is very important to face the future of arts and culture. We collaborate with them; there is a transfer of knowledge and all that.
As to their specific support, their funding comes more from SSHRC and more from the education system than from the Canada Council, but obviously they train people who eventually become professional artists.
The question for the Canada Council is not so much who you are; it's more what your project is, your specific project.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
I guess my question is, since sometimes design falls between art and innovation in where it fits, to what extent does design become incorporated into what can be funded by Canada Council projects? Designers feel, sometimes, that they fall between the two.