Canadian Heritage Committee on March 21st, 2017

[Simon Brault]

I guess, if you want a simple test, the question is always, “What is the finality of what we're supporting?” In art, the finality is not a product or something that is necessarily useful or an object or an invention. It's art, and it's a contribution to advancement of culture.

Sometimes the distinction is not that clear, but usually—I would say 90% of the time—it gives you an indication of how to decide and what the best way is to support one thing or another. It's not that one is good and the other is not; it's more a case of making sure that you give the right support for the right activity for the right outcomes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Mr. Nantel.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Mr. Brault, I read the speech you made at the Arts in a Digital World Summit. You said that you were sometimes annoyed by the term “digital” which is used in every which way, and this is sometimes dizzying.

With regard to programming at the National Gallery of Canada, I was telling myself that if Alex Janvier were in the room, he would be very concerned about the fact that digital issues were discussed for 50 minutes. It is a very trendy word.

How important is that dimension for you?

[Simon Brault]

First, I'll give you the example of the fund for the arts in a digital world, from the Council for the Arts. During its optimal year, 2021, the fund will represent a maximum of 9% of all our grants. It's a component, but it's clearly not a central component.

For us, digital technology is basically a tool to help ensure the arts take their rightful place in people's daily lives and in society. It's not a matter of replacing the arts with digital technology. It's much more a matter of seeing how digital technology can be mastered and how we can adapt to the sociological changes resulting from the technology.

Interestingly, many artists who attended the summit were technophobes. In other words, they didn't want anything to do with the digital world. However, after two days of discussions, they said they understood exactly what we wanted. They realized that we didn't really intend to convert everyone to the digital world.

The same is true for writers. When the printer was invented, it became impossible for them to continue working the same way. We moved on.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Exactly.

You've started to reform or overhaul all these programs. I think you had already intended to do so. However, on top of that, a wonderful amount of money has been poured into the budget. It's fantastic for you, and I'm happy about what this means for the arts community.

What changes will be made as a result? In total, the amount you received is seven or eight times higher. Will there be seven or eight times more beneficiaries, or will there be new support for art projects?

[Simon Brault]

As I said earlier, we want to allocate 25% of our new investments to people who have never received council grants. This represents a major call for a breath of fresh air into the system.

Moreover, we'll allow for more creation opportunities. Any observer can see that, for the past 15 years, theatrical and literary pieces, along with shows in particular, have been produced with less and less money, time and thoroughness. There's an overproduction that detracts from quality. However, the only way for Canadian culture to triumph at the global level is by producing more exceptional material, rather than by creating more average material.

We're sure that, if we do things properly, these investments will lead to new players and a level of creation that measures up to our artists' talents.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

There's no better captain than you to lead this undertaking.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Do you have nothing else to ask, Mr. Nantel?

Okay. I would then like to ask something, please.

I've been hearing from some groups about your new structures. These are the community-facilitated art groups, the ones in which the professional community works with a disadvantaged or a vulnerable community to create art with that community, not for that community.

They don't see themselves in your categories. Can you tell me where they fall? As you well know, they are a category in their own right, and they have their own ethics, principles, and processes. Are they still going to be funded?

[Simon Brault]

If you're talking about the practice that we call “socially engaged” arts practice, yes, they will be supported. We are now trying to deconstruct or debunk the idea that the Canada Council should be the guardian of what the specific discipline is.

For instance, there are organizations in that community who say they are the only ones doing socially engaged art. I'm arguing, for instance, that most of the indigenous artists of this country are doing socially engaged work. They are doing it differently; it's a different approach. It's not codified by universities, but it is as valuable.

Instead of spending our time debating what the protocols of a specific discipline are, we say that it's open to all you on the basis of merit and that this is how we will support them.

Some of them are happy with that, and some are less happy, but we think it's the future. We think that the Canada Council 60 years ago, when there was nothing, needed to be very prescriptive, saying we support this and not that—but we think that is not the world we live in anymore.

Yes, then; they will be supported, but in a different context, under a different model.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay. Thank you very much.

I want to thank you for taking the time and for giving us such fulsome answers. We feel very proud that you were able to answer very clearly all of the questions that were asked. It has not always been thus with other groups. We thank you so much.

[Simon Brault]

Thank you for the invitation. Merci.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Before the bells begin, I need you to stay for one second. Don't go yet.

I don't think we're going to have time to deal with your motion, Mr. Nantel, the one that you sent to us. Today we don't have the time to discuss it or debate it.

Are you okay with that?

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right.

Now that Mr. Van Loan is engaged, I need someone to tell me that we're ready to move to adjourn.

Thank you very much, Mr. Van Loan.

The meeting is adjourned.