Canadian Heritage Committee on Sept. 27th, 2017

[Father Raymond de Souza]

It's not that there is nothing that could be done, but what this motion points towards could be a chill around discussing difficult questions regarding Islam, and those need to take place. They take place within the Muslim community in Canada—you are going to hear from witnesses, or you already have, in that regard—and they take place between the different faith communities in the country. However the motion finally comes out, it should not have a negative impact on those discussions.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you.

I'll turn it over to Mr. Virani.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I will turn it over to Mr. Virani.

Mr. Virani, you have two minutes.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to focus my questions primarily on Mr. Cameron.

I'll confess that, as somebody who has practised constitutional law for 15 years, I found some of your submissions a bit surprising. I am going to put to you a few propositions, and I am going to ask you to comment on them.

You said that it's the role of the citizens, not the government, to determine what is trash radio. I would say to you that the Supreme Court has clearly stated in its jurisprudence that there are different types of speech, and when speech crosses the line of inciting hatred, it is the role of the government to weigh in, and that's the role of the police and the Attorney General.

I would also ask if you could tell us why we should prefer your testimony on the point of the impact of radio stations in Quebec in fomenting hatred, as opposed to the testimony that we heard from a CSIS officer in Quebec who has been on the ground studying this very issue.

You said that we should be “wary of assuming” rising intolerance. I would ask you to comment specifically on the statistics put to you by Ms. Kwan as to the rise of hate crimes against Jews and Muslims in this country.

I would ask you to specifically tell us where in this motion, in its language.... You keep reiterating that it's asking us to legislate, which it is not. Where does the actual text of the motion indicate to us that we should be legislating, that we should be criminalizing speech, or somehow permitting female genital mutilation?

The last point I want to state.... You said that we can't “constitutionally legislate” to eradicate racism. I would say to you that this undercuts the entire foundation of the federal Multiculturalism Act and all human rights codes in this country, in every province, including the Canadian Human Rights Act. Basically, what you are saying is that the Ontario Anti-Racism Act, which is dedicated to reducing racism, is somehow unconstitutional from your perspective.

What are your comments, please, sir?

[Jay Cameron]

I am not sure exactly how long I have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have one minute, Mr. Cameron. I'm so sorry.

[Jay Cameron]

I'll do my best.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair. I'd like to seek the unanimous consent of the committee—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry, Mr. Genuis. You are not a member of the committee at this point in time. There are three Conservatives already here.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Were you going to extend his time?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I wanted to seek the unanimous consent of the committee to give him an additional three minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You cannot, because you are not a member of this committee.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Maybe another member might want to do that.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

On a point of order, then, Madam Chair, I am a member of this committee. I am sworn in. I would like to seek the unanimous consent of this committee to give Mr. Cameron three minutes of additional time. He was asked, I think, five separate questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I would say to the committee, however, that we have a timeline and we have another group waiting to be here at a certain time. I have extended the committee for 10 minutes. We cannot keep going on and on, because we will not be able to give the next group—

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Could you put the question to the committee, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Please, Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Madam Chair, why don't you follow the rules of order and ask—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I am following the rules.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

No, you're not. You are inventing them as you go along.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Reid, you asked for a point of order. I am responding to your point of order as chair. As a point of order, we cannot go outside of our time limits because we infringe—

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

You cannot deny people the right to say yes or no.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We infringe on the rights of the other groups who are coming here to speak. We did that last time and nobody was happy about it, so we are not doing it again.

Having said that, I will ask the committee to decide if they wish to extend Mr. Cameron's time.

[An hon. member]

No.