Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 25th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I call the meeting to order.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), this committee, which is an all-party committee on Canadian heritage, will be studying the issue of systemic racism and religious discrimination. I want to welcome our witnesses here. As everyone knows, we have an amended list. The other group that was supposed to be here for this first hour was not able to come, so we only have one group here for the first hour, which is the Iranian Canadian Congress.

I want to welcome you, Mr. Tabasinejad, and Ms. Ghasemi.

The usual protocol is that your group has 10 minutes in which to present to us. You can choose who takes the 10 minutes or if you want to split it. Then there will be a question-and-answer round. For the committee's own interest, so that you can make sure you're on the list, we will probably go to two full rounds because we have only one group presenting to us. The second round will be a five-minute round, and not three.

We will begin.

Which one of you will be doing the speaking?

Mr. Tabasinejad, I'll give you an eight-minute count when we get to eight minutes so that you can wrap up what you have to do. Thank you very much.

[Pouyan Tabasinejad, Policy Chair, Iranian Canadian Congress]

Thank you so much.

Madam Chair, honourable members of the committee, I would like to thank you all for inviting us here today to discuss how our government can work to combat racism and discrimination and create a more inclusive Canada.

The Iranian Canadian Congress, or ICC, is a grassroots, non-partisan, non-religious community organization that seeks to safeguard and advance the interests of Canadians of Iranian descent, a population estimated at 300,000 nationwide. The ICC is the main advocacy organization for the Iranian-Canadian community, one of the largest and fastest-growing immigrant communities in Canada, and this has been corroborated by the latest census data just released this week.

Though Canada has been rightly recognized for its effectiveness in integrating minority communities, we believe that there's still much room for improvement, and hopefully this study will guide Canadians and our government in moving forward.

Our organization recently completed a survey of more than 600 Iranian Canadians on the issue of racism and discrimination, a survey that will inform much of our testimony here today. The results of this survey, in addition to individual reports we receive on a regular basis, show that Iranian Canadians are subjected to a significant degree of racism and discrimination.

A majority, over 60%, of our respondents in this survey expressed that they have experienced racism and discrimination in Canada. Employment discrimination, social discrimination, and discrimination by airline or airport security have been the three leading fields selected by respondents who have experienced racism or discrimination, with more than a half of respondents reporting employment discrimination specifically.

The respondents identified anti-Iranian sentiment, Islamophobia, and general xenophobia as the three main causes behind the racism and discrimination that they have experienced, with anti-Iranian sentiment leading. Close to 50% of respondents asserted that they have experienced specifically anti-Iranian sentiment.

Finally, a significant majority, 77%, of our respondents saw the policies and rhetoric directed against Iran on the international stage as a significant factor in the discrimination and racism that they feel in their daily lives in Canada.

Obviously these findings are extremely concerning for us and point to a need for action on behalf of government in close coordination with civil society.

A recent report published by Statistics Canada shows that the group known as West Asians and Arabs, a group under which Canadians of Iranian heritage are included, experienced growing discrimination in Canada. Between 2013 and 2015, police reported that crimes motivated by hatred of West Asian or Arab populations increased by 92%. Violent crimes targeting West Asian or Arab populations, which again include people of Iranian descent, increased 52% in 2015, the highest rise among all visible minority groups.

Unfortunately, we have seen numerous examples of how those of Iranian background are specifically targeted for racial attacks. Recently in the United States, two Indian Americans were shot by a white supremacist in Kansas because they were perceived to be Iranians.

In Canada, an Iranian Ph.D. student at Western University was brutally attacked and told to go back to his country, and a couple of months ago an Iranian-Canadian cab driver was verbally harassed by a customer who made explicit reference to his nationality.

These are a few instances of individuals of Iranian heritage being specifically targeted for racial violence in a manner that is unacceptable in a multicultural society. As I mentioned, our survey results show that the discrimination and racism that Iranian Canadians face not only has roots in Islamophobia and xenophobia but also results from a specifically anti-Iranian sentiment that is informed by Iran's treatment on the international stage.

Perhaps the most important instance of systematic discrimination affecting all Iranians today, including Canadians of Iranian heritage, is President Donald Trump's travel ban. With the imposition of these discriminatory travel restrictions, many Canadians of Iranian origin and thousands of Iranian citizens living in Canada who had to travel to the United States for business or education or to visit family were left in uncertain and insecure positions. Even now, as the ban has gone through several iterations and legal battles, their fate at the border is uncertain. Many members of our community have pointed to increased scrutiny by border security since the ban and have expressed feeling insecure at the prospect of travelling to the United States. This discriminatory policy has caused extreme anxiety and concern in our community, and we believe it is our government's duty to protect its citizens from such blatant discrimination by our closest neighbour at the border.

Unfortunately, systemic discrimination not only exists at our borders, but within them as well. Much of this systemic discrimination is a result of Canada's Iran policy and Canada's sanctions regime on Iran, which began in 2012, the same year that the Canadian government broke off relations with Iran and closed embassies in both countries.

Not only have sanctions deprived many honest and hard-working Iranian-Canadian entrepreneurs and business people of their livelihoods, but they have also had disastrous affects on ordinary Iranian Canadians. Financial institutions have been particularly guilty of discrimination against these ordinary members of our community.

Since 2012, as a result of strict sanctions placed on Iran by the Canadian government, banks have refused to deal with those who had or were perceived to have any financial links to Iran, whether personal or business. This resulted in the closure of the bank accounts of Iranian Canadians, including Canadian citizens, for no other reason than because they were Iranian. For example, the bank account of an Iranian engineering student in Quebec was closed with only $700 in the account. When he approached the bank he was only told that his account was closed because he had an Iranian passport.

Even today, after the government eased some of its sanctions on Iran in February 2016, financial institutions are still applying the same discriminatory rules, and we have received several reports from ordinary Iranian Canadians who have been subject to discrimination by banks.

We have also received several reports that Iranian Canadians are being discriminated against by employers explicitly because of their Iranian nationality. Iranian Canadians are denied employment in companies where they need to have access to sensitive technologies, are involved in defence contracts, or whose work requires them to travel to the United States. This is especially the case in engineering professions, where much of our community is employed.

Now my colleague, Soudeh Ghasemi, will go over some of our recommendations.

[Soudeh Ghasemi, Vice-President, Iranian Canadian Congress]

Thank you, Pouyan.

First, we believe that a systematic review of our Criminal Code legislation in regard to hate crimes and hate speech is long overdue. Numerous sources have reported that a significant part of the problem in prosecuting hate crimes is that the Criminal Code limits what can be done and does not allow speedy and efficient prosecution.

Second, we recommend that a racism and discrimination hotline be set up to allow victims of discrimination access to counsel and allow government to collect information on these incidents.

Third, current government Bill C-51 is removing parts of the Criminal Code that provide protection to places of worship, religious ceremonies, and faith communities. At this time, when hate crime against people from specific religious backgrounds is rising, we believe these protections are necessary. We recommend this committee to propose in its study for the government and Parliament to amend this part of Bill C-51.

Fourth, we recommend that the federal government increase the budget of Canadian Heritage programs that support the initiatives of diverse community organizations dedicated to improving interfaith and intercultural understanding, and target these programs at impacted groups.

Because of the sizable population of Iranian Canadians and the significant number of new immigrants arriving from Iran, we also recommend that Statistics Canada add an Iranian category in their visible minority section for accurate hate crime data.

Finally, and most importantly, we believe Canada should, in all foreign policy decisions and statements concerning a country, explicitly take into account the effect that such decisions will have on all Canadian individuals who come from or have ties with that country. The present lack of this awareness in our foreign policy circles has caused great harm to our community.

As shown by both our examples and our survey findings, Iranian Canadians suffer from sanctions and banking discrimination, the lack of an embassy through which they can access consular services, and the constant singling out of Iran in the rhetoric and policy of countries such as Canada. They must recognize that in an increasingly globalized world, Canada's actions and words on the world stage are not limited to international relations but also affect its citizens here at home.

In fact, this is something we already recognize in regard to the treatment of certain countries on the world stage. We cannot single out a country for special negative treatment and expect that such singling out will not have negative repercussions for those who are connected or perceived as connected to that country.

What we have shown in our presentation is that Iranian Canadians face serious discrimination. This situation must be addressed by our government. It is our hope that the recommendations we presented will not only allow our community to live peacefully and as equals in Canada, but help other communities do so as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Now we're going to go to the question-and-answer period. We begin with Anju Dhillon for the Liberals, for seven minutes.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you so much for coming in and testifying before our committee.

Could you please tell us how your organization has taken steps to fight against discrimination? What have you done?

[Pouyan Tabasinejad]

Our organization is an advocacy organization. We're not a service provider. We help our community members connect with service providers in some instances, but our main role is to provide advocacy to the government. We've presented in the Senate before. We've presented petitions that were important to our community, and we've tried to express the views and concerns of our community to any meeting that we have with politicians. We try to establish as many connections with politicians as possible so that we can express the concerns and issues of our community appropriately.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

What kind of guidance do you give to those who approach your organization, because you said you connect them with services? What kinds of services do you mean?

[Pouyan Tabasinejad]

We have lists and connections with all of these service providers, but really that's not our main role. I didn't want to give that impression.

We do this sometimes, but there are plenty of great service providers in our community, and we do not consider ourselves a service provider in that sense. We are a political advocacy organization; that is the main service we provide to our community.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

I'm asking because the Human Rights Tribunal is available to help those who face difficulty, especially when it comes to employment discrimination. They have a lot of files before them regarding employment discrimination, so that's why I wanted to know if you were guiding people there. In the last few days we've heard testimony making it clear that people are unaware of their rights, or they're scared to get help because they think there are going to be repercussions from the authorities. This is especially true in the immigrant population. That was the reason for my question.

[Pouyan Tabasinejad]

Would you like me to answer that?

Basically, you're completely right. When it comes to explicit, verifiable, recorded instances of employment discrimination or other kinds of discrimination, we do try to direct our community toward the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal or to whatever is available wherever else they may reside. However, you pointed to a very important issue, which is the fear that exists. As well, frankly, people often don't have the time. We do have some individuals, especially in regard to the banking issue, who are willing to put their names on the record and take the time to go that way, and we're helping them along with that process.

Generally, we believe the most effective way of addressing this issue is to do it through government policy, etc., but of course we try as much as we can to direct individuals to the appropriate tribunals.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

What kind of policies would you like to see the government come up with?

[Pouyan Tabasinejad]

We've described some of the policy in the recommendations. Maybe Soudeh wants to go into them, but basically—

[Soudeh Ghasemi]

Yes, I can provide more details.

[Pouyan Tabasinejad]

First of all, we think that a review of our Criminal Code legislation is extremely important. I'm sure you've heard that in this committee from other witnesses as well. A lot of experts, legal or otherwise, have pointed to this idea.

It is very difficult in Canada to prosecute hate crimes and hate speech in an efficient manner. I believe there have only been a handful of prosecutions since the 1970s. We believe that speaks for itself. Obviously other issues are important as well, but we think this is a fundamental one that really needs to be addressed.

One thing that through our preliminary research we think would be good is if Canada looked at other countries and what their policies are. Some of what we've seen, at least at this preliminary level, is that the U.K. might be a good example in this case. It really varies, but there are very clearly cases in which an individual was very speedily, immediately, and efficiently prosecuted for a hate crime. There was a recent case in which a solicitor, I believe, a lawyer, was verbally racially harassing a woman and her daughter on the train, and almost immediately afterwards he was prosecuted, I believe, and he had to pay a pretty hefty fine. I think it was one thousand pounds. I don't know how much that is in dollars, but I think it's more than $2,000.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

You mentioned changing the Criminal Code, amending it. What kind of legislation would you like to see, exactly?

[Pouyan Tabasinejad]

I think the real specifics would be best left up to the legal experts, but I think on a higher level we really need to make sure that a hate crime can be prosecuted in Canada, that it is actually in our Criminal Code and is very directly addressed. It's very difficult for anyone to be charged with a hate crime at the moment. I believe it has to go through the Attorney General, and there's a very long process right now that's just not feasible.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

This question is for both of you.

You spoke a lot about employment discrimination. Could you go into an little more detail about that?

[Pouyan Tabasinejad]

I'll start if you want.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Either one of you would be fine.

[Pouyan Tabasinejad]

Employment discrimination, unfortunately, is something that affects every immigrant community to some extent. This is more of a provincial issue, and we've been rather active on this at the provincial level.

In respect of employment discrimination, what tends to happen a lot of the time is that we invite individuals to come to our country to work in specified fields where we've identified a labour shortage. Unfortunately, once they get here, they're faced with a number of barriers to their employment. These barriers could be institutional, as when their degrees are not recognized, especially in the regulated professions. There are other issues, however, that are not as explicit. Here we're talking about the issue of Canadian experience. Individuals come here and can't get a job unless they have so-called Canadian experience, North American experience, and this is a problem.

On top of that, you have actual racial discrimination, which can happen in an interview. I believe there was a study done by the University of Toronto and Ryerson University in which they showed that if you had a non-Anglo or non-French name, you'd be far less likely to get a callback on your resumé. They sent in identical resumés and they found that the same resumé with a non-English name would have a far lower chance of getting a callback.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Would you be able to submit the study you just mentioned?

[Pouyan Tabasinejad]

Sure. That study is fairly well known.

In our community, employment discrimination is something we've addressed in our presentation. I believe the federal government could address the fact that individuals from Iran are prevented from getting into certain jobs, either because the jobs require travel to the United States or because the job requires access to certain sensitive information that Iranian Canadians are not allowed to see. This is done especially by engineering companies, and we've heard this multiple times.

If the clerk would ask me about that study, we would love to connect you.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Yes, please. I think the more facts and the more data we have, the better picture we'll have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Dhillon.

I now go to the second group, and that's the Conservatives.

Go ahead, Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to encourage the witnesses to formally submit the study of which you speak. We can only look at material that has been submitted to us as testimony, so a written report would be necessary.