Canadian Heritage Committee on April 14th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Good morning, everyone.

I would like to welcome, on behalf of the committee, the Minister of Canadian Heritage, the Honourable Mélanie Joly.

We will begin the proceedings. The minister is aware that she has 10 minutes to present and that there will then be rounds of questions and answers. I will indicate the length of time for the question and answer session.

Please be reminded that the time includes both the question and answer. There is no specific time for either the question or answer. If there is a seven-minute round, it means both questions and answers must be fulfilled within the seven minutes.

Madam Minister.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning to all the members of the committee. It is a pleasure to be here today.

I'm very happy to be here with Andrew Francis and, of course, the other people from Canadian Heritage. Andrew Francis will assist me in answering any of your more financial questions. Graham Flack is my deputy minister, whom I guess you already had a chance to meet because of the briefing given to the heritage committee earlier this week.

I am also very pleased to have the opportunity to meet with you for various reasons, not only to answer your questions but also to continue the collaboration between the committee and our office. I think most of you had the opportunity to meet with the Canadian Heritage officials at a briefing session on the various matters handled by the department. I also think a number of you have read the briefing documents that I have made public. I hope that all those initiatives that foster dialogue and transparency are relevant to you and help you in your work as parliamentarians.

I would like to turn to budget 2016 that was tabled on March 22.

Our department will invest a historic amount of $1.9 billion in the arts, culture and cultural infrastructure. This is the largest investment in arts and culture in the last 30 years. We are probably the only country in the world to make such a massive investment in arts and culture.

The amount of $1.9 billion is broken down as follows.

An amount of $1.26 billion is invested in CBC/Radio-Canada, Telefilm Canada, the NFB and the Canada Council for the Arts.

An amount of $105.9 million over five years is invested in our national museums, of which $6.1 million is invested annually.

In terms of cultural infrastructure, there's $156.4 million given to a storage facility that will help the Science and Technology Museum, the National Gallery, as well the Canadian Conservation Institute. The National Arts Centre is given $114.9 million. These are just some of the highlights of the cultural infrastructure commitments made to our national museums or national institutes.

There's also $35 million over a period of two years for cultural exports. As you may have seen in the budget, for those who had the chance to read everything pertaining to Canadian Heritage, we will also launch public consultations to develop a strategy regarding cultural exports. I will, of course, answer any of your questions regarding cultural exports.

In terms of the department's 2016-17 main estimates, the overall amount is $1.29 million. Of that amount, $104.6 million are earmarked for the 150th anniversary of Confederation. Let me remind you that, as announced earlier this year, the four themes of the 150th anniversary of Confederation are diversity and inclusion, youth, the environment and reconciliation with aboriginal peoples.

Several signature projects have been announced. By signature projects, I mean pan-Canadian projects. These are interesting projects. There will also be SESQUI domes in 50 communities across the country. Those geodesic domes represent the latest Canadian technology in terms of immersive experience. There will also be a partnership with the Toronto Symphony Orchestra with a view to creating a musical score for the 150th anniversary. Those projects have all been announced. So I will be able to answer any questions you may have about them.

It is also important to note that, for the 150th anniversary, we have launched a project with 191 community foundations across the country, in which we have invested $10 million in partnership with the community foundations. Another amount of $10 million will be raised by various philanthropists, including Jim Balsillie, to create a fund for micro-grants for a number of organizations in the country. Those grants could add up to $15,000.

Furthermore, I would like to tell you about the shift that my team and I have made at Canadian Heritage since our arrival.

We believe that Canadian Heritage has never been so strategic in a government. Why? It's because we were elected as the government on the basis that we ought to generate growth in our economy.

How do we do that? Well, there are different ways and, of course, the budget highlights different measures to grow the economy. When it comes to growing the economy, we have to invest in innovation. How do you invest in innovation? You do it in different ways, but one of these ways is certainly to make sure to invest in arts and culture.

Why? Well, you have to generate innovation. Innovation doesn't just happen with a snap of the fingers. You need to have the right ecosystem in order for different ideas to emerge and become business ideas or research ideas. The flora and the fauna of that innovation ecosystem are the people, all our stakeholders who are in the arts and culture world. This is why for us it was so strategic to invest $1.9 billion over five years.

I would add to this that when you look at the impact of arts and culture and in general of creative industries, you see that they amount to $47.7 billion of our GDP. That's more than agriculture, forestry, and fisheries all together. This is why we see our role as key to the economy and key to generating innovation and generating growth. Ultimately it will better the lives of Canadians.

The other reason we think that Heritage has never been so strategic is that we think there's an important digital shift happening, affecting all the different parts of our portfolio, including media, entertainment—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have one minute, Minister.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Yes. Thank you.

—meaning music, and of course, books, films, etc.

I know that right now as a parliamentary committee you're doing an important study on local news. We're very interested in partnering with you to understand the issues and also to know what your recommendations are. This is key for us to understand what's happening with the digital shift, and I'll be launching public consultations on this subject.

I'm here with my team to answer all your questions. There are many other things that relate to many more financial and operational measures, but I can answer all of your questions.

Of course, I am here to answer any questions you may have either about official languages or the support for arts and culture.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Minister. You're bang on 10 minutes. Thank you.

Now we begin the first round of questions. These are seven-minute rounds.

We will begin with Mr. O'Regan for the Liberal Party.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

In the budget there is $1.9 billion for arts and culture, $675 million of it for CBC/Radio-Canada. There are a number of us in the room who understand that broadcasting is in a particularly dynamic environment at the moment.

How do you see that as a strategic investment, and how do you strategically place that investment in CBC/Radio-Canada both domestically and internationally?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

That's a very good question. Thank you.

Of course, this is not news for anybody around the table or for Canadians, because we campaigned on it, so of course this is part of our campaign commitment. More than that, we believe in the role of a public broadcaster, and I would add that we believe in it because of its importance in making sure that we have strong Canadian diversity and that people around the country have access to information that relates to their region and also to what's happening in the country in general.

We also believe that, because of what's happening in the media world right now and the impact of digital on the media and because of technological changes that can have an impact on how people consume information, we ought to strengthen our public broadcaster and its role.

That's why we have expressed important wishes to the CBC, while of course respecting their independence. That $675 million will support three important priorities that they have also expressed, which are to support more content and, of course, more people developing local content throughout the country; also, to support their digital shift, really helping CBC/Radio-Canada to develop its digital background, maybe through jobs in understanding algorithms and big data—everything that a media organization needs to have to understand all the different ways people are consuming information in this digital age.

Third, in our view, it is clearly fundamental to build the next generation, to create new jobs for young people, precisely in order to ensure the sustainability of CBC/Radio-Canada so that, in 50 years, our public broadcaster is strong.

These are the three important priorities of CBC/Radio-Canada that we're supporting. This is why the investments that were announced in budget 2016-17 are so important: they really support these three priorities.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Let me take it to a local level. I'm very proud of the fact that one of the postal area codes that I represent has more artists than any other in the country.

One of the big recipients here is the Canada Council for the Arts. Can you talk a little bit about that particular investment, what sort of impact you see it having and how you plan on delivering that money in an effective way?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

We are reinvesting $550 million in the Canada Council over the next five years. It's the best way for us to support and strengthen the arts and the artists themselves.

What's great about that investment is that it will happen concurrently with the great work the Canada Council has been doing over the last years to reform all of its programs. Of course, you could ask the questions of Simon Brault, who is in charge of the Canada Council.

There used to be nearly 148 programs at the Canada Council. There has been a lot of restructuring and thinking about how to better support artists and different artistic organizations. Now they're down to six programs. By reducing red tape and by facilitating the organizations to better create, rather than just working on understanding the different modalities of programs in order to get the funding for the Canada Council, it's going to be easier because it's only going to be six programs. Our $550 million will give access to better artistic creation, to better support to indigenous artists and indigenous art in general, and to help in terms of exports, by helping all our different artistic organizations to access new markets and export the best of Canadian culture.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

At this rate I'll allow you 40 seconds to elaborate a little more on.... Everybody talks about innovation and the role of arts and culture in innovation and how it produces results for the economy.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Canada is the third most important music producer in the world. Canada is the third most important video game producer in the world. These are just two examples of the fact that we already have a strong ecosystem, but we also have a chance to invest in it in order to produce better results. This is the first time in a long time that the government is doing this.

The reaction to this has been great, and it's not only the arts and culture world that has been reacting well. The reaction is based on the fact that we're answering the needs of the organizations and also of the market, because by doing that I think we'll be creating the jobs of tomorrow. We're developing the pillars of the future creative economy that has great potential and that Canada needs to embrace.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. O'Regan.

We now move to Mr. Van Loan, from the Conservative Party.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Minister, for coming today.

I want to start by congratulating and thanking you for using the phrase “150th anniversary of Confederation”. I've noticed you've used that regularly. I think that's important because it is the event that we are observing and commemorating.

I noticed that the four main themes—and it's in your notes circulated today—to be featured are diversity and inclusion, national reconciliation with aboriginal people, youth, and the environment.

What seems to be missing, notwithstanding that you keep using the phrase, “150th anniversary of Confederation”, is any notion of history, or particularly the event itself, namely, Confederation. Shouldn't Confederation be one of the themes of the 150th anniversary of Confederation?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

When I inherited this project, there were already projects that were in line with history, commemoration, military importance—for example, the Vimy 100th anniversary commemoration—and a lot of initiatives in line with sports, arts, and culture.

There were four things that were less supported, which were the ones that I talked about: diversity inclusion, youth, environment, and national reconciliation with indigenous people. That is why we put these themes forward to also attract new projects that would support these themes.

It doesn't mean that projects that don't fall under these four themes can't be supported. A lot of them will be supported. Of course, there is going to be emphasis on explaining to Canadians what happened over the last 150 years, and also how we can have an optimistic outlook on the future of our country.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

I have to respectfully disagree with some of that. You say these themes weren't there before. I'm looking at the news release when the previous government announced it, and under themes and vision it talks about an open, diverse, and pluralistic society, for example, bringing Canadians together. That sounds like diversity and inclusion to me. I think you will find that some of those themes were being emphasized.

My concern is that Confederation and history are perhaps being missed when it comes to things like the micro-grants and so on, that we aren't really focusing on encouraging communities to focus on that the way you are in your terminology of the 150th anniversary of Confederation.

Historica Canada has done some good research over time. In 2007 they told us that only 16% of Canadians could name the four provinces of Confederation. The same year, only 46% of young Canadians could name the first Prime Minister, Sir John A. Macdonald. In 2008, when they looked at the population as a whole, they did a little better: 61% knew Sir John A. as the first Prime Minister. By 2013 that had gone up to 74%, which was good. A similar improvement happened over knowing that 1867 was the year of Confederation: in 2008 only 61% knew; by 2015 that was up to 72%.

I think what that tells us is Canadians do want to know more about their country and they do want to know more about Confederation. Do you agree that we need to focus on getting more of that knowledge of Confederation to the public?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I agree with the fact that we shouldn't play politics with the 150th anniversary.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

If we talk about the history of it, we can. Up there we have, for example, a portrait that includes the Fathers of Confederation. They're from both political parties.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

If I may—

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

It's a non-partisan thing. For example, I don't know if many Canadians—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Van Loan, could we allow the minister to answer your question? Thank you.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

I only have seven minutes. I heard her answer. She said she agreed and it shouldn't be partisan. I'm saying—

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

No, but I can answer why I agree. For example, the Museum of History—

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Well, I only have seven minutes, with the greatest of respect, Madame.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Please go ahead.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

You've answered the question to my satisfaction that we should do it and it shouldn't be partisan. We have a portrait of the Fathers of Confederation here. It is not partisan. They're from both political parties. For example, I'd like each Canadian to be able to name, say, just four of those, the four key figures, for example. Could you do that?