Canadian Heritage Committee on March 20th, 2018

[Hank Bull]

Yes. We have a lot of potential donors. There are $150 million in asks on the table right now. A lot of donors are sitting on it, though. They're waiting for the government. They don't want to back it until they can see that there is some kind of commitment from the federal or the provincial government, so we're on the cusp of that decision right now.

We know that the money is out there. There will be support for this. It's been demonstrated in the past that once the government comes on board, the private fundraising can really take off.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Sometimes that works in reverse. When the private sector sees the government funds coming in, the taxpayers' money, they back off. However, you're saying that the reverse will be true in this case.

[Hank Bull]

You never know, but the economic, social, and cultural benefits of this, and the benefits to tourism, are so great. All you have to do is look at Saskatoon, which is one of the biggest tourist draws in Canada right now because of the Remai museum.

There is a new museum in Quebec. There is a new museum in Edmonton. There is a new museum in Winnipeg. There are new museums all across the country, even in Toronto and Montreal, believe it or not. What about Vancouver? It's our turn.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Point well made. I think you've probably made that case very strongly in many places, and you'll probably be successful at it.

When you actually get that commitment—and you talked about needing partial funding to go ahead—what number are you looking for out of that $300 million before you put the shovel in the ground?

[Hank Bull]

I think we could if we had an expression of commitment from the provincial government, that yes, they like this project and want to go forward with it.... They've already put in $50 million, and they would be expected over the next five years to put in an equal amount. The federal government would match that with $100 million. That's the extent of our ask. Most of that would come from Infrastructure Canada. The balance of $150 million is coming from private sector support, including the $50 million endowment.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I appreciate hearing about that ongoing $50 million endowment, because you're looking at the future in this project, at sustainability.

[Hank Bull]

Absolutely. Of course, there has been a business case prepared for how the building will operate. The current budget is $19 million. The budget of the new building would be $28 million. We're quite confident of being able to make that.

Like I said, we have lineups around the block. The school programs are signed up for and sold out in one day. There is a huge public demand for this. It's a very, very popular organization. I don't see any problem with it, of course.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I think that goes to the point that if you're going to build that base out there for leveraging with provincial and federal dollars, which are the taxpayers' dollars coming out of one pocket, you have built the public sector support for what you do with programming.

[Hank Bull]

Yes, that's right, and it's also what we do with taxation generation. This independent study shows that there would be, for example, $8 million in direct tax income to the Province of British Columbia per year. As a business investment, it makes sense.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Yes, you're relating it in the sense of a broad variety of fundraising, public support, and longevity, and of a project that probably should go soon—soon would be my guess—and hopefully soon.

[Hank Bull]

Yes, really, it's time critical.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Right. Good.

I'll go now to the archeology and history museum. I have two minutes.

It's great in Montreal. I have been there to see it. It's super, when you talk about new, but it's looking at old.

The part that interests me is the exhibits and moving them around. I think that's a critical piece that really can make a difference in getting those artifacts because they are artifacts and they are significant.

You talked a little bit about funding, but could you explain a little bit more about what you'd like to do with it?

[Anne Élisabeth Thibault]

Thank you for your question.

As I said, we're looking to diversify our sources of funding. Travelling exhibitions are part of a project we are studying at the moment. We have already started to take our exhibits on the road. Some of them, which can be called local or regional exhibits, feature artifacts from Quebec and Canada.

For about a year and a half now, we have been trying to do tours with historical exhibitions that showcase the great civilizations. We want to act as agents for European museums by organizing tours that feature objects from certain major museums. For example, next summer, we will presenting an exhibition on Egypt, in Montreal, and we want to tour it across North America, so in Canada and the United States.

Our teams need to dedicate time towards setting up the network. This is really about getting the necessary funding for our operations. Setting up a network is time-consuming, and our teams are also very busy with the exhibitions and educational programs. We work on events and we need to rent space. We also organize many cultural activities in the community.

Our resources are extremely busy. We have forty people or so currently working full time at our museum. We have seven pavilions to maintain. Establishing a series of international travelling exhibitions will require funding. We need people to set up this network and establish contact with these museums.

There is also the installation of exhibitions. When we physically install exhibits, the furniture must be adapted so that it can be transported everywhere. It must be stable, steady, and easy to set up and take down. We need funding to build this furniture, and staff time to develop an efficient system. That is what we're currently working on with our resources.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you.

Mr. Nantel, you have seven minutes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you everyone for your participation.

Something struck me in your testimony. By the way, thank you for giving us four very clear recommendations. We must try to clearly state our questions and the purpose of our visit, or else we will never be able to conclude this study. Museums want concrete measures, not elected officials who continually spout their good intentions by talking about the state of museums.

The experiment you've led is in fact exceptional. As a resident of Greater Montreal, I was able to notice how much you have modernized, as my colleague Mr. Shields said, interest in history, archiving and archeology. Your second or third recommendation to build bridges between Parks Canada and the Department of Canadian Heritage is very appropriate, especially since our study is focused on small museums.

We could clearly say that a great deal of these small museums have ties to the history of the small communities in which they're based. For example, the museum in Chéticamp is surely tied to the history of the region.

Would you like to see yourself as in the vanguard of these museums that seek to build bridges directly between Parks Canada and the Department of Canadian Heritage?

[Louise Pothier]

This brings us to the issue of setting up networks within the museum community and the heritage institutions.

We are currently working very hard with the Grey Nuns of Montreal, who came to visit us at the museum. We are located right beside their community, which has a heritage building, collections and archives. The example I gave of religious communities is very concrete. We live it. This community came to see us to ask us what to do with its collections and archives.

It's the same thing for a number of religious communities, such as the Augustines in Quebec City, the Congrégation de Notre-Dame, the Marguerite Bourgeoys Museum—

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

There's also the Congregation of the Sisters of Saint Anne in Lachine, which is moving to community housing.

[Louise Pothier]

Yes, there is the Collège Saint-Anne and the museum. There was a truly seismic shift, and we were not prepared for it.

When the Grey Nuns came to see us, we told them that we didn't have the financial means to accommodate them. In terms of space, it's impossible. In terms of resources, our own operations are exhausting them. We go get our own resources. Nevertheless, we told them that we could help them. We worked with the Grey Nuns to find solutions and partners, as well as broaden our horizons. How will we work with the Ville de Montréal and the Government of Quebec? I believe that the federal government will also have a role to play.

Medium- and large-scale museums have an extremely important role to play. I think that we have the necessary expertise, and we can work with them in many ways. That is what we are doing at the moment, particularly with this project. We love it, and, at the same time, we feel like we have a responsibility. We do not believe that the government has to have all the solutions. We see ourselves as part of the solution, with our own resources.

Some museums are much worse off than us, and we are aware of this. We need to be very realistic here. We must renew ourselves. It's similar to a salvage operation. In an emergency situation, you first go for the elements that are easiest to save. Once you save them, you then go for the ones that are in the greatest amount of danger. That is what you do in a salvage operation. Therefore, we need to make sure that we are not imperilling those who are strong; rather, we must use them. We might need to fortify them in order to make everyone else a little stronger. In my opinion, that would be a fairly interesting way to operate.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you.

One thing is certain: Your restoration of a collector sewer to really draw the curiosity of people from all generations was exceptionally successful. On an operational level, it might have been hard to achieve. That being said, your ability to showcase the relationship between the past, the present and the future was an object lesson. All Canadian museums that have something historical to showcase would clearly benefit from your master class, should you ever give one. Congratulations.

I have a question for Mr. Bull. I paid a visit to your museum last spring, and saw the Susan Point: Spindle Whorl exhibition. I was utterly fascinated and captivated. The exhibition was a significant attraction in Vancouver, British Columbia. I was also pleasantly surprised to see that my card from the Museum of Fine Arts granted me free access to the exhibition.

At the federal level, could we try to support interest by including cards from certain museums in an accessible network? I find that Canada 150 could have advertised this a little better. I hope that museum attendance will continue to increase, and that visitors' interests will go beyond the norm, though we must capitalize on that norm as much as possible. Is the network between museums well known? Could it be better supported by the federal government?

[Hank Bull]

There already are in place certain exchange agreements between museums, whereby a membership in one museum allows you access to other museums across the country. There's no global program for every museum, but I think it's a very good idea. Of course, supporting museums in that way would be cost-efficient and would definitely generate an audience. I think it's a great idea.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

All right.

We will now go to Mr. Hébert, who will have seven minutes.

[Richard Hébert, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank all the witnesses, and congratulate them for the quality of their presentations.

My question is for the ladies from Pointe-à-Callière.

We know that Pointe-à-Callière is one of Canada's great museums of archaeology. As mentioned on your website, it owes its development to the important archaeological discoveries made in Old Montreal in the 1980s. We know that the federal government was of some help to you for these archaeological discoveries, and that it surely helped you with your operations.

As my colleague opposite noted, you made a very interesting suggestion for the four ways of helping the museum in the future. You also talked about a collaboration with Parks Canada in your latest discovery of artifacts. I do understand that organizing travelling exhibitions with archaeological sites almost cannot be done, because they are rather immobile. After all, Egypt's pyramids aren't going anywhere.

[Anne Élisabeth Thibault]

Yes, but fortunately, we do have artifacts.

[Richard Hébert, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

My question is twofold.

First, have specific funds been put aside for the project on the Parliament of the United Province of Canada?

Second, your museum has a very important tool, the Yours Truly, Montréal multimedia show, which traces the history of the city. Do you think that museums, in order to maintain their attendance in an age where digital technology is developing, will increasingly need to present these types of shows and exhibits that use digital technology? People could visit the pyramids from their living rooms, for example. Do you think that we could emphasize on the development of this aspect a lot more in the years to come?