It's Google, ma'am.
Evidence of meeting #13 for Canadian Heritage in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was broadcasting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #13 for Canadian Heritage in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was broadcasting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
You don't have to admit it.
It's lovely to see so many members of the community from Alberta. I am not an old radio host, so I don't come with that expertise, but I have an awful lot of interest in the vital importance of local media and how we are watching local media disintegrate.
I might ask the same questions to many of you, but I'll start with Mr. McAdams.
You spoke a lot about local media and what we stand to lose. One thing that's been brought up to me time and again as I've met with stakeholders is that our local media is often a place where our journalists begin their careers. It's often a training ground for local media.
Could you talk about the impact on journalists' development and what that looks like in Canada, considering the attacks on local media?
12:55 p.m.
Group Publisher, Alberta Newspaper Group
That's an interesting question. It's one of the areas where we struggle more than we even want to acknowledge in our own industry.
The area of recruiting new reporters is at the point where they don't apply. We continually look forward. We're continually in contact with journalism schools, newspapers and local radio stations, for that matter. The number of reporters we have today compared to even five years ago would be fewer by roughly a third to a half.
When we do get people to apply, we ask them what else they were looking for or what brought them to this. It's rare that they say they have a passion for newspapers or for local media. The younger generation is looking for digital-based environments for careers. It's not something that they look to as an area to consider.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
There aren't the opportunities for them to thrive in that area.
12:55 p.m.
Group Publisher, Alberta Newspaper Group
There aren't the opportunities and also there is not the cool factor in newspapers or local media that there is for digital. That's the reality.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Yes, of course. I think it's true that we've also seen the diminishment of local content even within our larger publications. So for example, there's much less local content in the Edmonton Journal.
One of the other things you had spoken about, Mr. McAdams, was the imbalance of revenue. We've seen drastic cuts to revenue for some of our local media. Are the current programs working? From your perspective, what would you like to see in legislation to correct some of that imbalance of revenue?
12:55 p.m.
Group Publisher, Alberta Newspaper Group
One of the things we've seen in the past decade is the virtual disappearance of government advertising as the changes have been permitted, or with the Municipal Government Act where the municipal governments now can advertise local bylaw changes to their digital platforms or their own websites, and I question whether the message is being seen by the majority of the population as it once was. Even when you get into provincial and federal politics it's the same thing. The proliferation of advertising that once was spent in traditional media, whether print, radio or TV, has now gone digital, and as I mentioned in my presentation, the digital portion of that dollar is largely leaving Canada and it has no lingering job impacts or tax impacts.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Mr. Petrie, could you comment on that as well? Do you have anything you'd like to add in terms of the revenue and the imbalance we see in revenues for local media?
12:55 p.m.
Retired Broadcaster, As an Individual
Yes, I agree with Mr. McAdams. We have to find a way to get that revenue back into our country. Use Netflix for an example. Where's Mr. Google here? I think they've got about eight million subscribers in Canada. Even at a low rate of $10, and it's up to about $16 now, they're making $80 million a month. Translate that over a year. How much tax revenue are we getting from Netflix? GST is a bit different on that, but we have to find a way to get it back.
I'll give you another example and I'll refer to the former mayor of Brooks, Martin Shields here. We have Amazon delivering packages into our community every day. We have SkipTheDishes. We have all these other ones. They're taking a ton of money out of our community. We're paying for the infrastructure and everything else and we're not getting anything back.
So there's an example of SkipTheDishes or Amazon and Netflix and Facebook and Google and all that. We have to find a way to get it back.
1 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Yes, absolutely. Thank you for that.
My last question is for Mr. Kassem. I know I'm running out of time.
Thank you very much for everything that you've done and all your information about the diaspora and cultural community content.
One of the things you talked about was the accuracy of content. Could you talk a little about what you'd like to see in Bill C-10 to ensure we are getting accurate content to audiences, particularly online?
I think we've lost Mr. Kassem. If he comes back, if I get a second stab, I'll try to get his answer at that point.
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you.
There's an expected 7.9 million Canadian subscribers to Netflix.
We now go to Kevin Waugh, from one old broadcaster, myself, to another radio broadcaster, Mr. Waugh.
1 p.m.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
Thank you.
Good to see everyone.
Broadcasting has changed. I just finished The Tangled Garden. It's a fascinating book. I would think everyone on this committee should read it. The Broadcasting Act does not pertain to newspapers today, so, Mr. McAdams, you're right. Governments across the world are pulling ads from newspapers, not only in Canada. I have PressReader and I read a lot of newspapers worldwide. Governments are no longer going to subsidize newspapers. I see it. That's just the way it is. That's the big change. It started with the Harper government in 2010 and it has continued. I'm not saying it's right but if you think you tell us in committee that governments across the world should spend more on newspapers, it's not going to happen.
The shift has happened and it's going to continue to happen and I don't know where you're going to find your revenues. We did ask Facebook on Friday, because they are taking a lot of content from newspapers in this country. They're not paying for it. They don't want to pay for it. We've heard that loud and clear from Mr. Chan. Your newspaper group should start there. Put the pressure on these giants like Facebook and see if you can get anything from them because the day of the federal government subsidizing newspapers is all but over.
1 p.m.
Group Publisher, Alberta Newspaper Group
I think you will find, if you read the attachments I have included in my speaking notes, that there is a series of campaigns the industry has run and is continuing to run—in fact, we are launching another one this week—with respect to the tech giants. The challenge we face with them stealing content and looking for the government's coordinated support—and we realize they are not going to spend the dollars they used to, Mr. Waugh—is in looking at ways to police the tech giants, similar to what Australia and France have done.
1 p.m.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
Well, France did get an agreement. Australia didn't get an agreement from them.
1 p.m.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
That's the sticking point in my mind, because I think if Australia would get an agreement, then Canada would soon follow. Right now, from what we heard on Friday anyway, I think that Facebook is digging in their heels.
Mr. Petrie, it's good to see you again.
It's interesting. You talked about Rosetown radio, CJYM. Like your stations in Brooks, they are owned by Stingray—Rosetown, Kindersley. I can say that Humboldt, Moose Jaw, Estevan, Weyburn are no longer owned locally. Golden West broadcasting out of Manitoba owns all these rural radio stations, and that's a disconnect at times, there is no question. You can't go to “coffee row” and talk to the owner of the radio station anymore, because he or she doesn't live in that community. That's the way it is.
Unfortunately, radio is hanging on.... They have done it to themselves at times. I agree with you, Mr. Petrie, that they do need the help. However, the big conglomerates like Jim Pattison are buying up everything in the province here. You see it with Stingray in your community, and that's not good, is it?
1:05 p.m.
Retired Broadcaster, As an Individual
You can get around that by loosening up the licences on that, because if the big giants aren't going to do any local programming, maybe somebody else will come along and start up a small....
The licences were brought in at one point basically because the capital cost to start up a radio station was so high and you wanted a certain amount of longevity in that.
For you or me or Ahmed to start up a community radio station, the capital cost nowadays is minuscule. In most cases, like I say, you just need a $1,200 laptop and you can start up a radio station in your basement. If you loosen up the licences on that, then maybe we can get back our local programming.
I'm not asking for any government help; I never really believed in that. However, I believe if you have a good product and you have advertisers who are listening, or you have an audience and you can direct that advertising to them, they will pay for that content.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
Yes.
Mr. Kassem, I looked at your website. You're into podcasts, which I think are the way of the future.
How is that going for your organization?
1:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Global Village Centre
I'm sorry, sir. Can you repeat the question?
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
I see on your website that you do a number of podcasts. How is that going in your community, because that seems to be the future here?
1:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Global Village Centre
It's going very well, especially during the pandemic. During the racial conflict, the podcast was very effective in terms of the newcomers, because we provide it in different languages.
It's mainly English. We have guests in English, and the reason is for the people to understand the language and—
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Mr. Kassem, I'm sorry; I have to interrupt. I'm really pressed for time. I apologize.
I have to go Ms. Ien, another former broadcaster.
Ms. Ien, you have five minutes, please.
February 1st, 2021 / 1:05 p.m.
Liberal
Marci Ien Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all of our witnesses today. We really appreciate your perspectives.
Mr. McAdams, I want to start with you quickly if I might. Have you delved deeper into your concerns as to the perception of media, and the whole idea of what is news and what is real journalism?
1:05 p.m.
Group Publisher, Alberta Newspaper Group
Delving into it, we hear a lot of comments from community citizens and readers that the news they receive has obviously diminished. They believe there's less value, less truth in it, and that's a function of where they are also getting their news from social media feeds.
That's where the inaccuracy or discrepancy between one story and the other.... We spend the time, as a reporting organization, to do fact checking, and we see the competing feeds we have with the stories that are significantly different in content. That's where we have a perception of discrepancy between the different types of news being reported.
We spend the extra time...and therefore have less news to be able to report, based on doing fact checks.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
Marci Ien Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Given the general landscape right now and the challenges that abound, how can we better attract young talent?