It's both.
Evidence of meeting #22 for Canadian Heritage in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was facebook.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #22 for Canadian Heritage in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was facebook.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:40 p.m.
Global Director and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
It's both.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
12:40 p.m.
Global Director and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
That's right.
Sir, my job, as you know—and I know you know this because we've had private conversations with you—and the job of Rachel Curran, is to work to deal with these very complex policy issues. We are not here to sell advertising to you and we're not here for profitability reasons. We're here to ensure that we have the right policy frames, both internally at Facebook, but also for public policy.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Of course, but on the issue that we're talking about—the issue of the news media, which was the primary reason we called people here today—the revenues of Facebook generated in Canada through advertising are a very important factor in the policy decisions that the Government of Canada should be taking.
12:40 p.m.
Global Director and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
I see. Sir, I think we can solve this by just being very clear about our posture about taxes, if that's what your question is.
If the Government of Canada, if the Parliament of Canada, in its wisdom wished to take more revenue from a U.S.-based company and give it to some other purpose, the simplest and most effective way to do that would be to tax these companies, have it go into the consolidated revenue fund, and then make a separate funding decision about what the government and Parliament would like to fund, as you do in an annual [Technical difficulty—Editor] every year.
I hear you, and we hear you, that people say, “You know what? We think these companies are doing well. We should tax them more.” Again, I just think the number is not really.... The principle is more important, I guess. What I'm saying to you, sir, because I want to give you some satisfaction in terms of getting at the answer you want, is that if you believe this is the right frame—
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Alain Rayes
Thank you, Mr. Chan. I have to stop you and turn it over to Mr. Champoux.
12:45 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Thank you, I find this a very interesting set of questions from my colleague Mr. Housefather.
In fact, it is very interesting to hear you, Mr. Chan, explain how Canadian public finances should be managed with respect to multinationals, which generate billions of dollars on Canadian soil and are headquartered abroad. We will get there, Mr. Chan. We will find a way to make companies like Facebook contribute fairly to the system from which they still benefit quite a bit.
As you know, we are in the process of finalizing the study of Bill C-10. Many of the recommendations aim to bring social media under the regulation of the Canadian Broadcasting Act, which is not currently the case. Obviously, I expect there will be opposition from social media.
If that were to be the case and if social media like Facebook were to become subject to regulation under the Canadian Broadcasting Act, how would you adjust your responses to situations like the one regarding events in Christchurch, which we were talking about at the beginning of the meeting? Would you adjust your responses so that the 17 minutes of horror that was witnessed was no longer accessible?
12:45 p.m.
Global Director and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
Sir, if I understand the question correctly, [Technical difficulty—Editor] talking about, to be honest, which is that we're talking about user-generated content. The frameworks will be different. A framework about what people can and cannot say is different from the framework that I believe is currently before the committee.
12:45 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Unfortunately, I only have two minutes and 30 seconds in this round of questions.
According to Professor Jean-Hugues Roy, whom you were talking about earlier yourself, Facebook's algorithm is quite reliable, and advanced enough that the broadcast could easily have been stopped in seconds.
This may be a bit of a stretch, but doesn't it become an editorial choice, on Facebook's part, to allow slightly offensive images to be broadcast in contexts where no regulations are in place?
12:45 p.m.
Global Director and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
No, absolutely not.
Unfortunately, Professor Roy is once again misinformed; this is not the case.
12:45 p.m.
Global Director and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
Don't worry, I'll tell him myself.
12:45 p.m.
Global Director and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
I have to tell you that the way.... It is just not—
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Alain Rayes
Mr. Chan, I have to interrupt you.
Perhaps Ms. McPherson will ask you to continue, since it is her turn to speak, but she has the floor for two minutes and 30 seconds.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to follow up on some of the questions Mr. Housefather was asking.
Mr. Chan, you've said that you neither know nor would be willing to make public the Canadian revenues. I'm wondering if you would be willing to find those numbers, to get that information, and share those numbers with this committee, if that would be possible.
12:45 p.m.
Global Director and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
Ma'am, I think we can do better than that. I'm pleased to share with the committee that we are working hard to change our structure at Facebook in Canada so that the entity [Technical difficulty—Editor]. We are doing this unilaterally, on our own. No other company, to my knowledge, on the Internet space is doing that.
That will mean we'll register with the CRA. When we do that, we will, not just for 2020 but on a go-forward basis, report our revenue to the CRA in perpetuity. We will be doing that, I hope, in the coming months. There's some technical work that needs to be done to be able to do that.
That is our commitment, because we hear from you, ma'am, and from Mr. Housefather and others, that what people want is transparency. Again, and I want to be very clear about this, regardless of what the rules are in Canada, we will unilaterally make this available. We are in the process of undertaking that technical work to get it done.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
That's great, and you expect that to happen in the next couple of months. That's good to hear.
12:50 p.m.
Global Director and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
Yes, that's right.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I want to ask a question as well about some of the online violence, and I know I'm following up on some questions that others have asked.
As you know, Facebook took down the Proud Boys' Facebook page in mid-January, after my leader stood up in the House and asked the government to act on declaring the Proud Boys a terrorist organization.
However, it was recently reported that hundreds of other militia pages are still operating openly on Facebook, including over 140 that have the word “militia” in the title. News reports even suggest that Facebook creates such pages automatically.
I'm wondering how you can say you're doing your very best to reduce these incitements to violence, when there are pages being created that will incite that violence?
12:50 p.m.
Global Director and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
First of all, I want to commend your [Technical difficulty—Editor] and racism. That is obviously something—
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Alain Rayes
I am sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Chan, because I think we all would have liked to hear your answer.
However, I must yield to Mr. Waugh, who will decide whether he wants to continue with this.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
A month ago, Facebook blocked its Australian users from sharing news articles.
Have you learned anything from alienating people in Australia, when you blocked it for three days and then you made the agreement? Has your company learned anything from that last month in Australia?
Go ahead, sir.
12:50 p.m.
Global Director and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
Mr. Waugh, again, I want to characterize it the way it has been, which is that exiting the news market was the only response to a proposal that didn't respect the realities of how the Internet works.
I would say that in Canada, we've seen examples of this. For example, if we look at Bill C-76,, which was the Elections Modernization Act from the previous Parliament, we were very early supporters of that, and we supported it throughout its legislative process. We were the first to comply and build very robust systems to ensure that we did our part to ensure a free and fair election.
As you may recall, there were other platforms that had a different posture, including some that exited the market for political ads. I would hope for your understanding in this regard, in the sense that companies obviously are going to have to look internally to see whether or not they can meet the requirements set by authorities. Usually, when laws are fact based, we're able to do that, as we did with Bill C-76.
When a law disregards the basic premise of the Internet and how it works, it obviously makes it very challenging, so in the end, we exited the market.
It is also the case that the revised and amended law in Australia further clarifies...to state that exiting the news market is a legitimate outcome for the process if a company deems it to be too high a regulatory burden.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative