Canadian Heritage Committee on March 29th, 2021

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alain Rayes]

Have a good day.

Mr. Champoux, you know I hate meetings that go on for too long; but since your sincere wish is to help me gain more experience as chair, in case I have to do it again someday, I gladly agree and you may table your motions.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

It will be easy, since I submitted notice of them at least three weeks ago. I invited you to consult them two weeks ago and to let me know of any questions you might have. These housekeeping motions are available in the digital binder. Here is the first motion:

That the text of any substantive motion or any motion in amendment of a substantive motion be distributed in writing in both official languages to all committee members before the committee begins debate on such a motion.

The second motion is as follows:

That the clerk inform each witness who is to appear before the Committee that the House Administration support team must conduct technical tests to check the connectivity and the equipment used to ensure the best possible sound quality; and that the Chair advises the Committee, at the start of each meeting, of any witness who did not perform the required technical tests.

Let me tell you that these motions have been introduced in other committees as well, have already been discussed among our whips and have been submitted to the Clerk of the House.

I am prepared to answer any questions, if there are any.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alain Rayes]

I'm not an expert on procedure, so the clerk can help me if necessary. If you agree, we'll take them one by one, because there may be amendments and other comments afterwards.

I will read Mr. Champoux's first motion again to make sure there is no ambiguity. I hope that the interpretation is correct. If not, I will also read it to you in English. Then, Ms. Dabrusin, I will give you the floor.

So this is the first motion that Mr. Champoux has tabled today, the notice of which was tabled on March 1, if I'm not mistaken:

That the text of any substantive motion or any motion in amendment of a substantive motion be distributed in writing in both official languages to all committee members before the committee begins debate on such a motion.

Ms. Dabrusin, you have the floor.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Motions can be brought from the floor in the course of proceedings and, in fact, have been. Does this motion not actually have the impact of blocking motions from the floor, going forward? You would have to have it in writing and translated and circulated to be able to have such motions.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alain Rayes]

Thank you, Ms. Dabrusin.

Are there any other comments?

Mr. Champoux, do you want to respond to Ms. Dabrusin's question, since it's your motion?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I think motions without notice can be discussed. However, by the time we discuss them before we vote on them, whether they are in French or English, we should have already received them translated in both official languages. This does not preclude us from having discussions on motions presented without notice.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alain Rayes]

Are there any questions or comments?

Mr. Waugh, you have the floor.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We would like to amend the first motion to add “members' offices”. That would come after “a federal department”. We would like to add this, if possible.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alain Rayes]

The clerk would like to speak.

Go ahead, Ms. Belmore.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Aimée Belmore]

I'm sorry, Mr. Waugh, but I'm looking for where it says, “federal offices”. I think perhaps you might not be looking at the right motion, sir.

I can redistribute Mr. Champoux's motion if that would be helpful for everyone.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

That would help, if you could. I was looking at the first motion. Is it the one that says, “That all documents submitted for committee business that do not come from a federal department”? We would like to add “members' offices”, if possible. Is that the first motion we're dealing with here?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alain Rayes]

No, it's not that one.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

I'm wrong, then. I'm sorry.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alain Rayes]

Madam Clerk, my understanding is that you're going to send the motion to all members.

I will read it again to make sure it is correct. I will try to do it in English, if I may.

“That the text of any substantive motion or any motion in amendment of a substantive motion be distributed in writing in both official languages to all Committee members before the Committee begins debate on such a motion.”

By now you should have received both the French and English versions by email.

In the meantime, if I may, Mr. Waugh, I will turn it over to Mr. Housefather. Then we'll come back to your amendment.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I put up my hand to clarify something for my friend Kevin. The motion he was seeking to amend was already adopted by this committee. We adopted it about a month ago.

There are two motions that Mr. Champoux has put forward today. The second one is absolutely fine and has been adopted at other committees. The one he is now putting forward has been rejected at all the other committees I've been to because of the feeling that it would stop the flow of amendments being put forward and the ability....

The interpreters do this work. They translate. The motion would put the clerk in the impossible position of having to translate something, be responsible for the translation and send it out to members when something comes up at the meeting, which is an impossibility for the clerk. It was rejected at other committees because it would make it very difficult to send something out in writing that came up at a meeting without somebody officially translating it. That's why it hasn't flown at other committees. I understand the reason for it.

With all due respect to Mr. Champoux, I don't think this motion works. The first possibility is that a lot of time may pass between the time an amendment is moved and the time we vote on it, because someone has to do the translation and send it to all the members. I am not sure who is responsible for doing the translation. The second possibility is that we may have a bad translation.

I prefer to oppose this motion, but I fully understand why you moved it, Mr. Champoux.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alain Rayes]

Thank you.

I think everyone has received the motion by email.

Mr. Champoux, before I give you the floor, I'd like to go back to Mr. Waugh, who proposed an amendment.

Mr. Waugh, I'd like to check whether you still think it's necessary or whether Mr. Housefather's explanation has convinced you that it's not.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

No, it's not.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alain Rayes]

I'm pleased to hear that.

Mr. Champoux, you have the floor.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I understand Mr. Housefather's concern very well.

A good way to reach a compromise would be for me to propose to remove the concept of motion in amendment from this request. On the other hand, in the same spirit and according to the same logic as the motion we adopted a few months ago to ensure the reliability of the translation of the texts that were presented to us, I think that, when we vote on a motion, there can sometimes be subtleties. We can discuss them. However, when we vote, I think it would be appropriate for the text of a motion to at least be presented to us in writing.

What does Mr. Housefather think?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alain Rayes]

Thank you, Mr. Champoux.

The clerk could confirm the following. If we take out part of the text of the motion, it would read as follows:

That the text of any substantive motion be distributed in writing in both official languages to all committee members before the committee begins debate on such a motion.

I think this is already the case. I don't think we can receive a motion only in one language. Basically, it must be sent in both official languages. So I personally don't see the point. However, it will not prevent us from voting again on something that is already in the legislation or in the way we operate.

In my view, if we take “or any motion in amendment of a substantive motion” out of the motion that you put forward, it becomes meaningless. I've been a member of Parliament for five years, and I've never seen anyone introduce a motion in advance without it being in both official languages.

Madam Clerk, could you confirm that a substantive motion could not be introduced in only one official language? As I see it, if it were not in both official languages, you would not even send it to us.

[The Clerk]

For the work of the committee, it would be okay to move a substantive motion without notice and without it being in both official languages. You always have the right to do so without notice in the committee's work. The interpreters then take care of the translation.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alain Rayes]

I'm sorry, I was misinformed. I have never seen that before. This is good news. It means that, in general, people are very careful.

Mr. Champoux, you have the floor.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I was just going to say that it is possible to introduce a substantive motion right off the bat. I expect that it will be translated into both official languages by the interpreters who are already on site at the committee. We don’t have to send it to the Translation Bureau. We don't have to wait for the next meeting, because it can be done fairly quickly.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alain Rayes]

Mr. Champoux, do you want to move an amendment to your own motion and then have a vote?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Sure, if everyone prefers.

In the same spirit, any motion in amendment could also be discussed. However, if it is the will of the members of the committee to accept this motion, including the amendment about any motions in amendment.

Let me move an amendment, no problem. The motion would read as follows:

That the text of any substantive motion be distributed in writing in both official languages to all committee members before the committee begins debate on such a motion.