Evidence of meeting #25 for Canadian Heritage in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Can I propose that it be negatived on division?
(Amendment negatived on division [See Minutes of Proceedings])
11:50 a.m.
Green
Paul Manly Green Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
This amendment again addresses the community element. This amendment adds that Canada's broadcasting policy should enable public participation and public dialogue through the community element. The act states that the public should be exposed to “differing views on matters of public concern” and that assumes a private or public sector model of production in which Canadians are a passive audience to content created by a privileged class of journalists and producers.
The community element enables the direct participation of members of the public on matters of public concern. I'm hoping members of the committee will support this. Thank you.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Mr. Manly, you've given me some food for thought here.
Folks, I'm going to have to take 30 seconds for a quick clarification. I'm going to suspend for literally under a minute. There is just one thing I need to clarify with our legislative clerk.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
[Technical difficulty—Editor] and the content of what we are discussing whatsoever. This is basically from our House of Commons Procedure and Practice, as you can see here on screen. It does state, on page 770, if you're following along— perhaps you know it by heart—that you have to stay within the principle. It states, “an amendment to a bill that was referred to a committee after second reading is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill.”
All that being said, what we're talking about here, Mr. Manly, and what you're proposing is.... I get the aspect of being a passive audience over the years, and so on and so forth. The issue of direct participation is one that I had to think upon, because it is through the Canadian broadcasting policy....
This requires a new concept brought in here to the way it is normally done. I could go on for an hour as to how, but I don't have that time. In the opinion of the chair, PV-10 brings forward that new concept and that is beyond the scope of the bill. I'm ruling on the particular procedure as dictated by the rules of the committee. Unfortunately, Mr. Manly, I have to rule this particular amendment out of order.
We now move on to LIB-4. If LIB-4 is adopted, BQ-8 cannot be moved as they are identical. If LIB-4 is negatived, so is BQ-8 for the same reason. We're talking about LIB-4, but it's also tied to BQ-8, which normally would follow.
With that being said, we're on LIB-4.
Go ahead, Mr. Housefather.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I see that I have put forward exactly the same amendment as my colleague Mr. Champoux. We heard the witnesses and moved an amendment to the new paragraph 3(1)(k) proposed in the bill, which is as follows:
(k) a range of broadcasting services in English and in French shall be progressively extended to all Canadians;
This amendment would simply remove the word "progressively". I believe that these services ought not to be offered progressively, but rather immediately, as soon as possible.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Do I see any further discussion on LIB-4?
(Amendment agreed to)
Take BQ-8 off your schedule, as it cannot be moved.
We now go to PV-11.
Another note is that, if PV-11 is adopted, G-3 and BQ-9 cannot be moved as they are identical. If PV-11 is negatived, both G-3 and BQ-9 will be negatived as well. By the way, the “G” means it is a government amendment. They are coming up later. Right now we have PV-11.
Go ahead, Mr. Manly.
11:55 a.m.
Green
Paul Manly Green Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
As written, the bill only provides for programming undertakings carried on by indigenous persons in Canada's broadcasting policy. This excludes online undertakings. This amendment replaces “programming undertakings” with “broadcasting undertakings” so that online undertakings are included by definition. This amendment was recommended by APTN. I hope people support it.
Thank you.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Marci Ien Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I wanted to thank my honourable colleague for putting this amendment forward. We heard from several witnesses on this, including APTN as he pointed out, and I am in full support of this.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Seeing no further discussion, shall PV-11 carry?
(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
As I mentioned earlier, that takes out G-3 as well as BQ-9, as they are identical.
We now move on to PV-12, Mr. Manly.
I'm sorry, Mr. Rayes. I just saw your hand up.
Mr. Manly, I have to go to Mr. Rayes first.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Alain Rayes Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Would the committee agree to a short three- or four-minute health break after which work could resume immediately? It would simply be a brief pause to go and fetch something to drink or to go to the bathroom.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
That's a valid point, Mr. Rayes, maybe one that eluded me at the beginning. I should have brought that up. Thank you for putting me back on the right track.
Do I see any objections to using the washroom?
Mr. Manly.
Noon
Green
Paul Manly Green Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
I want to note that I have to reboot my computer. You can see the problem going on with my screen. I need to clear this up. I'm having some issues.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Yes. At times it seems like the land rover on the planet Mars has better reception than yours. That's no reflection on your abilities. Nevertheless, hopefully we will get it fixed.
Noon
Liberal
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
We're going to pick up right where we left off.
We are now going into PV-12.
Go ahead, Mr. Manly. Your reception is much better. Welcome back.
12:05 p.m.
Green
Paul Manly Green Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Yes, it cleaned right up. I have been having problems with this computer. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
This amendment carries on with the theme that I have about community media. This amendment adds that Canada's broadcasting policy should not only include programming carried on by indigenous persons but also by indigenous community media. It recognizes that indigenous persons and indigenous community media are uniquely positioned to serve indigenous communities. Indigenous community media is an important component of programming that reflects indigenous cultures in Canada. Community media have a lower-cost structure and work to preserve indigenous languages, tell indigenous stories and equip indigenous youth and community members of all ages and digital skills.
I'll note that I was a co-producer on the first preschool show on APTN when it launched. I did 64 episodes of that program in post-production. Many of the people who worked on that programming came out of community media, out of the non-profit world, where they were trained and gained skills and developed careers and went on into the mainstream broadcasting world. It's a really important training ground and a place for cultural expression and identity.
I hope that people will support this amendment as well. Thank you.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Tim Louis Liberal Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to commend my colleague for bringing this amendment forward. Though we support the principle of it, my concern is, where do we stop? We want to make sure that this legislation is inclusive and broad, and that the policy and framework enables everyone to be included, but creating small amendments that include some could come at the expense of excluding others.
We don't see the need to have this as a defining portion of the bill, but I'd love to hear further discussion.
12:05 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Mr. Chair, I agree with saying that indigenous programming in indigenous languages should be available not only to indigenous populations, but also to the population of Canada in general. I do indeed believe that this would be beneficial for everyone.
I would nevertheless like to ask the legislative clerks or the department's representatives a question. The last portion of the amendment strikes me as superfluous. I'd like to know whether or not it has an impact. If it doesn't, then it wouldn't change anything.
The amendment says, "which are uniquely positioned to serve smaller, remote and urban Indigenous communities". Perhaps this is the phrase to which Mr. Louis was alluding when he said that we might get the impression that the amendment excludes other types of media, whether community or otherwise.
I would therefore like to know whether this short sentence fragment has a particular meaning, or whether it's merely symbolic.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Mr. Champoux, would you like to go to the Canadian Heritage staff, or were you talking to Mr. Louis?
12:10 p.m.
Bloc
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
You'd like to hear from the department.
Who from the department would like to take this?
We'll go to Mr. Ripley.