Canadian Heritage Committee on April 19th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Ms. Ien, I see that your hand is up. Do you want to comment further?

[Marci Ien, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I do.

If my honourable colleague needs more on this, I would love to go to our government representatives to provide that clarity as to why we want to separate this at this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Okay.

As we normally do, I'm going to ask not for a virtual hand but perhaps for an actual hand in this world.

Mr. Ripley, would you like to respond?

[Thomas Owen Ripley, Director General, Broadcasting, Copyright and Creative Marketplace, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for the question.

As the committee is aware, one of the objectives of Bill C-10 is to clarify and enlarge the definition of “broadcasting” to clearly include online undertakings. This clarification around programming under their control has been included to clarify that or to recognize the fact that in some instances now, moving forward, you will have online undertakings that are distributing content generated by other users.

From the government's perspective, striking out the limitation with respect to programming under their control would mean that those undertakings, when they are distributing the content of others, would be responsible for that content even though they may not have played any role necessarily in the editorial control of it.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Mr. Champoux.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I entirely understand the arguments raised by the departmental representatives and my colleague. However, platforms can take many steps to prevent excesses such as those we've previously witnessed.

I think platforms should have a minimum level of responsibility for distributed content, regardless of its source. Even if content is generated by users, the fact remains that platforms must ensure that content generated by their subscribers meets standards.

Consequently, I don't think we're suggesting here that Facebook is entirely responsible for editorial content, but the platforms must nevertheless have some responsibility for that content. We have to compel them to react quickly and much more significantly than they've recently done.

So the act must be tougher in that respect. That's why we have to ensure that platforms have some responsibility for programming.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I see no further discussion, so we will proceed to the vote. Again, I remind everybody that we are voting on amendment BQ-6 in your documents. You've just heard the discussion.

We're going to go to a recorded vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 9; yeas 2 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Now, folks, we move on to amendment BQ-7.

Just for your information and with no particular ruling in place, amendments BQ-7, PV-9 and CPC-3 all deal with the same subject. That's just so that you're all aware of that as we deliberate on this particular amendment, BQ-7.

Mr. Champoux.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The purpose of amendment BQ-7 is simply to add to paragraph 3(1)(i) of the act subparagraph 3(1)(i)(i.1), which reads as follows:

(i) the programming provided by the Canadian broadcasting system should … (i.1) recognize and support Canada’s linguistic duality by placing significant importance on the creation, production and broadcasting of French language original programs, including those from French linguistic minority communities,

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Go ahead, Mrs. Bessette.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to Mr. Champoux.

We definitely acknowledge the need to protect francophone content. Amendment BQ-7 is a good addition to the amendments brought by my colleague Mr. Housefather. So we'll be voting for it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Do I see any further discussion?

Go ahead, Mr. Rayes.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My dear colleague Mr. Champoux and I have two very similar amendments. I was going to move mine afterward.

It would be helpful to introduce a subamendment to what you're proposing. The major difference is that my amendment refers to "original French language productions."

I may be wrong about the words used, but the purpose is to ensure that these are productions that originate here, not just French remakes or francophone content from another country. That could be a good distinction to make.

Wait a minute. Your amendment does refer to "production and broadcasting of French language original programs." My apologies. I just realized my mistake and would like to withdraw what I said.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I can assume you're not putting forward a subamendment. Okay.

I see no further discussion. Let us now go to a vote on BQ-7.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Now we go to PV-8.

Mr. Manly, that would be you, sir.

[Paul Manly, Green, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The act states that programming provided by the Canadian broadcasting system should “be drawn from local, regional, national and international sources”. This amendment adds language to specify that, at the local level, the system should include programming from community broadcasters specifically.

Community broadcasters should be included because they collaborate with local organizations and community members. They are uniquely positioned to provide varied and comprehensive programming that meets the real needs of different audiences. Community broadcasters are best-suited to meet these criteria compared with other models of production.

This amendment also amends subparagraph 3(1)(i) to replace “men, women and children of all ages” with “people of all ages.” Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Seeing no further discussion, we now go to a vote on PV-8.

Shall PV-8 carry?

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

No.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Chair, can we try to use that fancy “on division” thing?

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Yes. I normally wouldn't go to it unless someone were to say it. I don't want to be the one to suggest it, but maybe since you brought it up....

Mr. Rayes, would you like a recorded vote?

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Would you repeat the question, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

We decided that there were four ways to vote. Silence would be “carried”. You can say “carried on division" or “negatived on division”, or you can do a recorded vote.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Then I would like the amendment to carry on division.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Very good.

(Amendment agreed to on division [See Minutes of Proceedings]

We will now go to amendment CPC-2, submitted by Mr. Shields.

Mr. Shields, are you up, sir?

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

You bet. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would just like to return this to the original clause that was in the bill we had previously. It would put the word “national” back in. For some reason, “national” was taken out. I propose that we put it back in so that it covers news and current events “from the local and regional to the national and international”.

In the original bill that we had on the Broadcasting Act, “national” was in it. In this version, the word “national” is taken out.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you.

Mr. Louis.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As a government, we agree with this. It is a good addition to further support local journalism. We heard from many witnesses on the importance of that. We appreciate the amendment and will be supporting it.