Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 27th, 2020

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I too would like to thank the witnesses for being with us today and helping us understand the effects of this pandemic on the cultural industry.

I'd like to put my first questions to Ms. Drouin.

You have described the state of the industry from ADISQ's point of view. We know that the industry is in a crisis situation. That is precisely why the committee is conducting this study.

If nothing is done very quickly, that is early in 2021, if you don't get any additional money beyond what is already promised and if there is no serious revision of the Broadcasting Act to include safeguards, what do you think the result of such inaction in the face of the current crisis will be?

[Solange Drouin]

I realize I forgot to describe the mission of the association I work for. ADISQ represents independent music producers in Quebec and in the greater Canadian francophonie. I wanted to clarify that.

As I said earlier, the whole community continued to work, whether it be authors, artists, performers, musicians, producers or broadcasters. These people stayed active and tried to stay in touch with the public. If nothing is done, the work that we have been able to do for some time will not be able to continue. Ultimately, we risk losing everything we've built over the last 40 years.

What we have built over the last 40 years is a star system, supported by the artists who are loved by the public and the companies that support them. That's precious. Of course we're talking about the artists, but we must never forget those who journey with them. If they were to appear before you, artists would tell you that they are more successful when they are well guided by companies. We finally have strong Canadian companies that are developing artists' careers and supporting them. We have managers and a host of other tradespeople who contribute to the career development of artists.

We risk losing not only artistic careers, but also an important industrial infrastructure that exists to receive new artists and develop their careers. They are working to ensure that we have access to new music, so that tomorrow morning we are not forced to listen only to our best hits or classics. They work so that one day, in a burst of nostalgia, we can listen to the old songs of 2020.

For the moment, we have to keep creating these songs. We need to distribute them throughout Canada, Quebec and the entire francophonie.

That's what we risk losing if we don't help artists, performers and the businesses that support them.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

In 2020 particularly, we have seen artists show a lot of creativity, as one witness mentioned earlier. It's obviously the nature of artists to be creative and to find ways to do things with the means they have.

Do you feel that there will be something positive left from the way artists have reorganized themselves to disseminate their work, to be heard and seen, and to continue to bring their talents to the world?

[Solange Drouin]

Yes, there will be something left of it. I think that just as teleworking is now possible—we're seeing each other through Zoom for this committee meeting—some things will remain, and may even be easier.

There will be something left of the virtual show. Now, everyone will tell you, even the other witnesses who are here today, nothing can replace a real stage show. The on-stage show is also a physical manifestation of our culture, everywhere in the territory. We want it to once again become the driving force of our industry.

We can certainly further improve the show offer with these new technological tools, when they are better used and better understood. The offer may be improved, but I think there is nothing like a live show.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

With regard to the economic update that will be tabled next Monday, I have a few minutes left to ask you whether there is anything in particular you expect or hope to see for the cultural industry.

[Solange Drouin]

Yes, we're still hoping to see something.

During pre-budget consultations, we presented requests for the music industry. We would be very happy to see them granted in the budget update. If they are not, we'll keep going and wait for the next budget.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Drouin.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you.

Ms. McPherson, please go ahead, for six minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to take a moment to thank all of the witnesses for coming, and for sharing their stories. It is really a desperate situation, and I recognize the position you're all in.

I was flying to Ottawa to be in the House this week, and I sat beside a musician on the plane who has left the industry. He is a young musician, and he couldn't make ends meet. He couldn't stay in the sector. He said this is something he's heard across the board over the last eight months. It's really devastating to see things like that happen.

I'm going to follow up a bit on Mr. Louis' intervention. I'll ask Ms. Drouin to start talking a bit about what we can do to encourage young artists to remain. How we can support that? The New Democratic Party has been pushing for a guaranteed livable income.

Do you think that might be an opportunity that would be useful for the artistic community?

[Solange Drouin]

For sure, it's very important. In our music industry, we deal with authors, musicians, interpreters and the companies. It's very important that each group has access to specific money for them. It's important, through the Canada Council for the Arts or through another program, that the artist has access to some money to be better at what they're doing as an artist. Each group should have access to that kind of money.

At the same time, the best way to make sure that we make a living out of our music is to work, to have an album, to promote it and after that to do concerts and shows. The money is in the live industry. As I said in my presentation, 75% of the live sector goes back to the artist, the musicians and the technicians. The best way to make sure that people make a living is that they work and have the essential means to promote them, promote the concerts and to have access to the Canadian public wherever they are in Canada.

For sure, some direct access for the artists, authors and other groups, but at the same time, we need to have access to promote the activities and the companies that are working with them.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much.

Maybe you could also comment a little bit on how the shutdown of venues has had that deep impact and what that's looked like for those venues. I know in my riding of Edmonton Strathcona we have a number of live music venues that have reached out to me because they just don't know how they're going to survive the coming months.

[Solange Drouin]

As I said, we did a survey among our members and most of them fear that 2021 will be even worse than 2020 because we don't see the end of it. In Quebec, everything is closed down until January 11, so we don't foresee any clear openings of the venues. Even if we come back in the arenas, will people be there? We don't know yet. It means that we need to have access to some support for a longer rather than shorter period of time. It's not a question of months; it's a question of years. We hope that this will be understood very clearly by the government.

[Patrick Rogers]

If I could jump in here on this, I would like to agree with everything that my colleague has said here, from the industry.

I do want to make the point that—I think we've seen it in the past year—we saw garden centres open, but we were a long way from the Rogers Centre being opened. We need support for that to continue. For as long as regulations remain in place to stop these things from happening, artists will continue to need support.

Other than that, I completely agree with Madame Drouin.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Wonderful.

Mr. Rogers, I'll ask you a couple of questions.

I'm interested in how this all rolled out. When the pandemic was announced, for artists who already had shows in the pipe or who already had tours, what did they lose when that all shut down?

For example, I had tickets to see Corb Lund in Ottawa in May. I was super excited and of course that was cancelled. That was then delayed and we had tickets for December, which has also now been cancelled. As much as I would love to see Corb Lund live in Ottawa.... What did they lose and what were the impacts of those?

[Patrick Rogers]

The experience has been devastating. The dollars speak for themselves. The issue of refunding tickets, the lost opportunity.... The real effect on careers as a whole has required an entirely different look. Within the industry there's a model: You work on your album, you record your album and you go on tour. All of this is now in flux.

Whether you are a major label artist or you're an artist just getting started, this entire situation has thrown the industry for a loop and that is why we're here today. It's why our members have asked us to put our focus on that experience.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you.

Now, Mr. Aitchison, you're up for five minutes, please.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think I'm going to focus a bit more on Mr. Rogers. I appreciate Mr. Mustakas. I come from an area where we have things like the Festival of the Sound, Muskoka's Huntsville Festival of the Arts. I'm very familiar with those smaller festivals, even smaller than your organizations, and have been chatting with them regularly about what they need. I really appreciate your comments. I'm really intrigued by the incentive-based model of matching dollars.

Mr. Rogers, I understand the music industry really not at all. You think about the music industry as big names, artists who are worth millions, especially when you hear the names Sony and Universal Music. I think it would be helpful for me particularly, and maybe others, to understand a little bit about who you represent. It's obviously not just the gazillionaire musicians we all know and have heard of before.

[Patrick Rogers]

I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that my family traces its roots to the heart of your riding, Port Sandfield, and—

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Huntsville is actually the heart. I don't want to interrupt you.

[Patrick Rogers]

All right. Absolutely, yes.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I'm from Huntsville, so that's the heart. I kid.

Go ahead.

[Patrick Rogers]

At Music Canada we do represent Sony, Warner and Universal. These are major labels with big operations here in Canada, full of Canadians making Canadian music at all levels of the industry. The industry is one massive ecosystem that requires everyone, from the artist you haven't heard of today to the artist at the top of the charts. We at Music Canada try to be passionate advocates for all musicians and those who help them.

You're right. The industry is very different. Madame Drouin has a very specific focus on Quebec, and it's an important role. We have our focus. During this time of crisis we have tried to place our resources, our time and our effort into ensuring that the artists you haven't heard of yet have an ability to break out after the pandemic; and that's by making sure they're supported, that's by making sure they're still here. It's one of the reasons that our members and others in the industry made commitments to the Unison Benevolent Fund, which I would strongly recommend the committee look into further. This fund existed before the pandemic to help artists who found themselves on hard times. Obviously now those hard times are wide-reaching. We are strong supporters of that organization.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I'm wondering about recovery and start-up, again one of the reasons that I liked Mr. Mustakas' idea about the incentive. I have this perception that live music is going to be easier to get started than things like plays and musicals, those kinds of productions and the scale of which.... Maybe that's completely incorrect.

Could you just give me a quick answer on that, too, please?

[Patrick Rogers]

I would put everyone in that spot in the mass-gathering bucket. Any industry that requires a large group of people to be in a smaller area is going to be challenged with the medical information that we have now. My colleague, Erin Benjamin at the Canadian Live Music Association, will probably have the best answers for exactly how quickly people can get together. What you're going to face is an understanding from both the population and the medical situation. That mix is what we're going to finally determine when people get on stage again.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Mr. Mustakas, I'm just thinking that things like community theatre take a little more to put together.

I'm wondering about the difficulty, cost-related, to getting going again.