Evidence of meeting #10 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was actra.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Actor and Creator, As an Individual
Absolutely. Speaking first-hand, when I booked my sitcom through CTV originally, the year prior to that I'd made $18,000, just like Mr. Gordey said, and then the next year I made $120,000, and 50% of it went to taxes. Even if it was giving me a leg up, it was quickly taken away. I believe that averaging the income is essential.
I don't know if universal basic income has been talked about, but I'll just throw that out there while I have everyone's attention.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative John Nater
Thank you, Mr. Michael, and thank you, Mr. Julian.
We will now go to Mr. Uppal, for five minutes.
Conservative
Tim Uppal Conservative Edmonton Mill Woods, AB
Thank you.
I'll start with Darcy. I found your unique perspective very interesting. You said you are part of the traditional industry, as well as a digital content creator. It's so great to hear about the success that you've had.
How did you harness the platform? What do you think is different about your ability to do so that maybe other people who have tried...? Do you see a lot of other people trying?
Actor and Creator, As an Individual
Absolutely. I see it all the time. I see it with creators from coast to coast to coast who weren't even in the industry of performing. Oorbee is an example. There's a creator on the east coast, Alicia Mccarvell, who has close to five million followers and is now under the comedian platform on TikTok.
Again, I work directly with brands. We basically do the same thing a network would do. I create my content, and every now and then you're going to see a commercial on my channel that helps me finance the further creation of that content. The difference is that brands want to work with me, because I can give them specific information about my users. I know the male/female average. I know their ages and locations. These are things networks can't provide when they're selling commercials to just broadcast TV.
More and more, brands are leaving television. They're leaving radio, and they're going to creators like myself to get their specific product to specific people. Instead of working, I've also done commercials for television over the years, and again, it's 30 people in a room trying to make a decision, whereas now, I work directly with the brand. I pitch them my idea. I write it, direct it, and produce it. I post it, and I get the money. I have a lot more control than I've ever had before, and it's really exciting.
I don't think I'm the exception to the rule, to be clear here. I have found success. I've been in the industry for 15 years. As I said earlier, I am very good at what I do, so yes, I think that helps. I think that there is a way for other artists in this country to transition to this platform and find the same kind of success.
Conservative
Tim Uppal Conservative Edmonton Mill Woods, AB
Thank you.
Ms. Roy, I have the same kind of question for you, about how you are able to harness the platform and how that's led to your success.
As an Individual
Thank you for your question.
I think maybe the world needed a little joy and positivity when I started my TikTok account, so I think some of it was timing. In Darcy's case, he's able to make a lot of money with brand partnerships, and I haven't found that same level of success yet. I think there are other channels. I look at making money on my own terms, and I can start creating courses. A lot of people started doing online yoga or something else, so I've started to put together an online course.
Course creation is expected to be a $325-billion industry in the next few years. There are lots of channels and spaces opening up. I think it's just a question of jockeying for a position and getting in there, but there are so many opportunities to make money. The first one may not work out for me, but I guess it's the skateboarding mentality—I just fall, get back up and try something else.
Conservative
Tim Uppal Conservative Edmonton Mill Woods, AB
I just want to jump back to Darcy for a minute.
You have these platforms that you've been able to become quite successful on. Is there anything that the federal government should or should not be doing regarding these platforms?
Actor and Creator, As an Individual
Absolutely. I don't think we need to be approving what is Canadian content, bottom line. I am a Canadian creating content in Canada, end of discussion.
Conservative
Tim Uppal Conservative Edmonton Mill Woods, AB
Of the three million followers you have, how many are Canadian? What kind of international exposure are you getting? It's good to see Canadians getting international exposure as well.
Actor and Creator, As an Individual
Absolutely. Right now, approximately 19% are Canadian on the “following” side. On the “view” side.... I will just explain the difference. People can choose to follow you or just wait for you to come up on your feed. We get about 40 million to 60 million views a month on the other side. Of those, about 10% to 15% are from Canadian users, so we're reaching a large number.
Again, we're reaching the number that Bell and CBC wish they could get on television. I'm saying that very humbly. As a Canadian, this is very difficult to brag about. I just want to be here and apologize for everything, but I do think it's important that we really understand that there's great reach here. The second we have to prove that there's Canadian content is the second the industry dries up.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative John Nater
Thank you, Mr. Uppal. That's your time.
We have Mr. Bittle for five minutes.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. It's good to see you in the chair. It's a great meeting so far.
I'd like to continue on with Mr. Michael. I guess I'd like to understand the business model a bit better. TikTok is different from YouTube. Am I correct? TikTok doesn't pay you a nickel for the millions of views and ads that are driven to their platform. Is that correct?
Actor and Creator, As an Individual
Yes, you're correct on that. In Canada, there isn't a creator fund on TikTok. The only country that has creator funding, from my understanding currently—and I don't know if there are plans to change that—is the States.
From speaking to creators in America, I know it's not the greatest scale of payment that they get from those views, but the difference is that YouTube plays videos. I have a YouTube channel, and when you're watching my content, the ads pop up midstream, so you have to watch the video to continue with it, whereas TikTok just advertises in general. However, they don't take any of the income that I make working with brands directly, so when a brand approaches my management and pitches an idea for me and my husband to promote their products, 100% of that income is mine.
Does that clarify your question?
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Yes, thank you so much.
I'll go back to what you said earlier in terms of Bill C-11. You were concerned with the CRTC being able to oversee every video uploaded. Is that what your concern was? Please correct me if I have that wrong.
Actor and Creator, As an Individual
I think the legislation is a little broad in its writing, from my understanding. I believe there is a little too much grey area for the control from the CRTC on something like this. At the end of the day, if the CRTC has any say over what is pushed in the algorithm versus what is user-generated, I believe it will stifle creativity and free speech.
User-generated content exists because it works. It's popular because it works. Much like all the politicians here are a result of user-generated votes, with user-generated content the cream rises to the top because of that.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
If I tell you that Bill C-11 does not regulate the uploading of videos and does not allow the CRTC to engage in that practice, does that alleviate your concerns?
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
I guess I'll be specific, then. Could you point out to me the section that you are concerned with? Since it's pretty clear to me, what's the section that exists for you that doesn't have that level of clarity and requires more clarity, in your opinion?
Actor and Creator, As an Individual
I don't believe the CRTC should be involved in social media. I believe the networks are trying their best to have control over an industry that is taking viewership away from them—
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Excuse me. I just pointed out that the legislation doesn't allow for the regulation of the uploading of your videos. How does that not alleviate your concerns?
Actor and Creator, As an Individual
Because I genuinely don't believe that is the—
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
But you can't point me to the part in the legislation that is the issue.
Conservative
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative John Nater
We have a point of order. We'll just pause for a second.
Go ahead, Mrs. Thomas.
