Canadian Heritage Committee on March 21st, 2022

[Darcy Michael]

Absolutely. I'm a proud member of ACTRA, just to be clear. I have my RRSPs with them. I take that TikTok money and I put it into my ACTRA RRSPs.

However, I will say that ACTRA gets in the way sometimes. I recently had to turn down a $7,000 gig, which ACTRA denied me from being able to do, because it was deemed reality television. I defined it as promotion, they defined it as reality TV, and I lost that gig. There are times when I want to scream about ACTRA.

However, what I will say about being in control of my creative content is that the irony is that if Bell Media came to me to make the TV show, I would turn them down because they can't afford me anymore. I make more money doing it myself and I don't have to listen to 10 executives asking me to explain a joke to them. Nothing is more exciting than being in a room at Bell or CBC and trying to walk someone through a joke that they just don't get.

It's important that.... I agree with a lot of what this act is, but I believe that it needs to be renamed “the status of some artists”, because you aren't including everybody, and I really want to drive that home. The fact that comedy is not recognized as an art form in this country is absurd. Look at whom we export. Look at the Mike Myers, the Dave Foleys, the Jim Carreys. Look at the success of Canadian comedy around the world. They had to leave because there was nothing for them at home to help them become the artist.

I had to leave my—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

I have to interrupt you there, Mr. Michael, and move on to the next round, but you might get a chance to finish that thought.

We will move on to Mr. Coteau.

You have five minutes, sir.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Mr. Michael, you can continue your final thought if you'd like. Go ahead.

[Darcy Michael]

I wanted to say that, yes, you're including a lot of artists, but you're not including all of them. If you're going to pass a status act like this, you have to do your research and understand that digital creation is a part of the future. It's already happening now, but network television is what newspapers were 15 years ago; it's a dying thing.

People are choosing how to get their entertainment in a new way. Part of that is that the laws and legislation have to change with it, including things like ACTRA. We need to be including members we haven't considered before.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you so much.

I was looking over some of the demographics from a 2016 survey. When you start to look at the numbers, the profile of artists is a very educated group of people. There's a lot of self-employment. It says that 52% are self-employed, compared to 12% of Canadian workers overall. However, when you start to look at the income levels, they're so low. Dancers make $15,000. Singers and actors make $17,000 to $18,000. It's almost 60% lower than the Canadian average. There are some big challenges out there for the sector.

When we go forward as a federal government, doing this study and looking at all the different possibilities.... I want to ask April and Karl if they have an answer to this question around provincial and federal jurisdiction. Karl, you spoke a bit about the difference in jurisdictions. You thought that there was more provincial jurisdiction when it comes to looking for solutions.

Can either of you explain what you see as the role of the federal government when it comes to looking for ways to find solutions, versus the provincial governments?

[Karl Beveridge]

Very quickly, most of the exhibiting institutions are under provincial jurisdiction. That would be institutions like the Art Gallery of Ontario, the Vancouver Art Gallery, the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts, etc. It also includes all the artist-run centres and all the university galleries. Most of the public galleries are under provincial jurisdiction. As I said earlier, the main one that we have federally is the National Gallery.

In that sense, the bulk of where we would be able to negotiate income is on the provincial level.

April, do you have anything to add?

[April Britski]

Some provinces do have provincial status of the artist legislation, but none include collective bargaining, or perhaps only one does. They're able to do other things, but they don't have the teeth that this one has. It would be really great to have something very comparable at the provincial level.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Was there something else you wanted to say?

[Karl Beveridge]

There are a number of avenues where artists can gain income. Collective bargaining is a major one.

I just wanted to add that in there.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Right, 100%.

I notice that when it comes to EI, there was some talk around different benefits that artists can.... A lot of them are self-employed and they would not qualify for some of these benefits out there.

I'm sure you know many people in the sector. Can you talk about how the lack of those types of supports has impacted people prior to the pandemic and then currently? How does not having those types of supports impact artists you have known personally?

[Karl Beveridge]

Go ahead, April.

[April Britski]

A friend, who is an actress, said that you never know what kind of year you're going to have. You may have a really great year, like Mr. Michael or Ms. Roy are having, but you don't know what's going to happen a year or two or 10 from now.

The lack of a social safety net that is designed for self-employed artists and gig workers can really put people in very precarious positions. Certainly when CERB came in, the bar for eligibility for it was quite low. You had to earn $5,000. Many people still weren't able to meet that. The confusion as to whether it was net or gross further left quite a few people out for some time.

You really never know when you're going to have a good year versus a bad year and what kind of impact that can have on you on an ongoing basis. I can say that programs—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

I'm sorry. I do have to cut you off. Our time is up for that round.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you so much. I appreciate your time.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

Perhaps you can come back to that thought in another question.

Mr. Champoux, you have the floor.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

On the subject that Ms. Britski was just talking about, I'd like to turn to Ms. Blanchette from ACTRA, from whom we haven't yet heard.

Ms. Blanchette, you have some interesting proposals, including not taxing the first $15,000 and, of course, the issue of employment insurance. We absolutely must do something to make it easier for artists to qualify for the safety net that is employment insurance. They need it badly.

You also talked about income averaging. If I'm not mistaken, you're proposing income averaging over a four-year period. In Quebec, things work a little differently. In fact, the tax system allows artists to purchase an annuity. In a good year, they can purchase an annuity for a less profitable year, which in many cases is the following one. This might include artists who want to prepare a new show, album recording or production, for example.

How are these two proposals compatible, in your opinion?

Why would the four-year income averaging formula be preferable to the one in place in Quebec?

[Lisa Blanchette, Director, Public Affairs and Communications, Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists]

Keith, I'll start and then I'll hand it over to you.

We were advocating for the four-year income averaging because that was available in the past. That was available to artists up until 1989. Familiarity was first and foremost on our minds. We've done it in the past. It's still available.

I'll turn it over to Keith now to talk more about income averaging.

[Keith Martin Gordey]

It would make a huge difference. If you get that gig in a film and suddenly you make $80,000—which is a good day for an actor—you're in a different tax bracket and you're paying a lot of taxes. In the previous three years, the average you were making was around $18,000 or $19,000 per annum. If you average that out over four years, you're on par with the rest of the people in Canada who have regular jobs.

I think that's a pretty straightforward proposal. I think it's easy to implement. We had it before. We had it up until 1989. I think that's an easy fix there. It would certainly be less discriminatory.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

Mr. Julian, you have two and a half minutes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Beaulieu, do you have any thoughts on the notion of guaranteed income and employment insurance?

[Maryse Beaulieu]

There is definitely a consensus around the need for a social safety net and the gaps that exist for all artists. The employment insurance system could address these concerns. It is well known that visual artists are often self-employed and therefore fall into a category that departs from the traditional notion of employer and employee.

In this regard, it is very interesting to note that the federal Status of the Artist Act defines and considers artists to be independent, which allows for collective agreements to be reached. This is what we would like to see in the provincial legislation currently under review.

As I mentioned in my presentation, we are here today to talk about the Status of the Artist Act, which is an aspect of a whole set of possibilities to help visual artists. There is, of course, the tax aspect, employment insurance, provincial legislation and the Copyright Act, which is a key component. CARFAC and our organization identified the need to give visual artists residual rights, which would significantly improve their situation.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

Very quickly, Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

To Mr. Michael and Ms. Roy, thank you for your very compelling testimony.

What have you heard today that you also think would be helpful, even for folks who have become social media artists and have done that independently of the kinds of supports that are normally put into place?

We talked about employment insurance, income averaging, and tax incentives. Would any of those measures be helpful?