Canadian Heritage Committee on March 21st, 2022

[Christian Lemay]

That's a very good question, Mr. Champoux.

You should know that it has a significant impact on our members' socio-economic conditions. Our union organization is responsible for members' contributions to the group insurance plan and the registered retirement savings plan. Like all other Canadians, these technicians, who are employees in the audiovisual industry, would like to retire sooner or later under the best possible conditions.

Of course, when some producers use subcontractors, it leads to a shortfall in contributions to the group insurance plan and the registered retirement savings plan. This significantly erodes our members' socio-economic conditions.

That's not counting the abuses that can occur with respect to the Labour Code as it relates to occupational health and safety or any related or contractual condition between employer and employee. In a sense, these individuals are unprotected.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Can you recommend any solutions? For example, should producers be required to abide by agreements or negotiate and sign agreements? Should this become a standard?

[Christian Lemay]

As far as we're concerned, it's a difficult situation, because our collective agreements are with independent producers, who are members of employer associations like the Association québécoise de la production médiatique (AQPM) or the Association des producteurs publicitaires (APP) in the advertising field.

When these producers use subcontractors, we have difficulty reaching them. In a way, it forces us as an organization to go after all these subcontractors hiring freelancers, who are artists recognized under Quebec's artist status legislation. We see it as a mad rush to subcontract.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

What role should the federal government play?

What could the federal government do to improve the situation for artists and self-employed workers, not only in Quebec's cultural sector, but also across Canada?

[Christian Lemay]

You need to fortify the status of our artists and industry workers. You have to give it some substance. We suggested to the Quebec government that all employers be required to have collective contracts available to artists and technicians in connection with funding. For example, if a funding method at Telefilm Canada or even the Canada Media Fund were to be updated, a collective contract for all artists would be required.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

You talked about the efficiency of the courts.

Could you give us an example of a situation, a judgment or a court decision that literally fell through the cracks?

[Christian Lemay]

To be frank, Mr. Champoux, I don't have a specific example at the federal level, but we brought this recommendation to the attention of committee members. We want to be sure that, for cases like these, the time frames are as short as possible.

Of course, having to wait for results of arbitration, grievance processing or a judgment has a negative impact on labour organizations and their members. So, much like we did to the Quebec government for Quebec's artist status legislation, we made the recommendation to ensure that the court that deals with these matters is efficient and renders decisions as quickly as possible.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lemay.

[Christian Lemay]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Julian, you now have the floor for six minutes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to all of our witnesses. We thank you very much for your very important testimony, and we hope that you and your families continue to stay safe and healthy during what we hope will be the final weeks of this pandemic.

I have questions for all of you, but I'll start with Mr. Gordey and Madame Blanchette from ACTRA.

You've put forward very useful and specific recommendations around a tax incentive: the first $15,000 of an artist's income, income averaging, and gaps being filled in the EI program. Thank you very much for these recommendations. Can you tell us what you foresee in terms of the future of Canadian artists if all of these elements are put into place, and what you foresee if none of them are put into place?

[Keith Martin Gordey]

I would think that, if it's put into place, you'll have a flourishing of the creative arts. You will have people fulfilling the best of their abilities and contributing to our society.

In Ireland, income earned by creative artists is tax-exempt up to, I think, 50,000 euros. So there is that freedom. You earn the money. That's, perhaps, not a high bar, but you earn the money and you're allowed to live a fuller life and devote your energies to your creative abilities. It's a great thing for society.

If it's not implemented, then all of the creative artists who are between gigs are working in the restaurants. The trajectory of your career is lessened. You don't hit the same heights. You're not allowed the time and energy to be as creative as you are. I think that's a detriment to our society.

We learned from the pandemic. What really exploded when the pandemic hit and everybody was at home.... They turned to the arts—to Netflix and all those other providers. Their subscriptions went up. It's an integral part of being a human being: to have that kind of expression and to partake in it as an audience.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you so much. You're right to say that, if none of them are implemented, we will continue to miss out on all the creativity that is generated from our artists. It will make it very difficult for them to focus on their art full time.

I'd like to go to Ms. Britski and Mr. Beveridge.

You talked about the Status of the Artist Act in very positive terms. How can we make things better for artists? It is a compelling argument about the increase in funding, for example, from the National Gallery. Are there changes that you propose, or improvements, that could put artists at a higher level in terms of their contribution to the Canadian economy and to the Canadian quality of life?

[Karl Beveridge]

I hate to say this, but what we need is not only the federal status of the artist legislation, but also the provincial status of the artist legislation. If you really want to change the economic status of artists, we need.... Most institutions are under provincial jurisdiction. We've only bargained with the National Gallery and a couple of others, like the War Museum, the Museum of Civilization, etc. It's very limited in that sense. If we're talking about the overall income of artists, we really need to work on it provincially.

I want to add one thing, since we're talking about the act itself. One of the stumbling blocks we had when we were negotiating with the National Gallery was the grievance procedure. How do we deal with complaints? The reality is that, as an organization, CARFAC does not have the resources to go through the usual labour relations grievance process. It might be worth thinking about how we can create a grievance process, particularly for organizations like ours, that would not be as costly as it is in the general labour relations sector.

April, do you have anything to add?

[April Britski]

For a while, we also talked about collective bargaining training. Most of us have never been through that and don't have the support of the big unions, either.

In terms of grievances.... This is a small one, but it also goes back to a previous question that was asked about how long it takes for the tribunal to hear something. We did have a complaint that we had to take to CAPPRT, which is no longer around. It was a two-year process, for various reasons. I also hope that it can be streamlined. I think the main reason was that they didn't have the expertise at the time, when it was needed.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Lemay and Ms. Beaulieu, some people are talking about introducing a basic income for artists, as other countries have.

What is the position of your respective organizations on that concept?

[Christian Lemay]

The 8,000 technicians who are part of our association have a very different reality from artists who are paid by performance, but please know that we have thought about this. We do, however, have contract employees who benefit from the volume of audiovisual production in Quebec, which is very heavily subsidized by the province, the federal government and tax credits.

I must admit that our members' socio-economic conditions are meeting their expectations right now. We're looking at having a basic averaged salary for all artists and technicians, but at this point we don't have an opinion on it.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

We're going to have to end it there. We were a little over time for that answer.

Moving on to the next round, this is the five-minute and two-and-a-half-minute round.

We will start with Mr. Waugh, for the Conservatives, for a five-minute period.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, guests.

We're seeing a major digital technology happening across the world. We have ACTRA and all the other groups here. My fear is that, as witnessed today by Darcy and Oorbee, your organizations are falling behind.

I was once an ACTRA member. I don't know what your fee structure is today, Mr. Gordey, and I don't know how many artists have withdrawn investments from ACTRA in the last two years, but I think around the table here we can see a major shift happening, not only in this country but around the world, in how people watch entertainment. I actually worry about the three or four groups in front of me here today, because I think you're living in the dark ages.

I just want to touch on some of that. Maybe ACTRA can start by talking about your fee structure. How many investments were pulled from your RRSPs in the last two years? I still have some with you, but I'm wondering how many artists have withdrawn them over the last two years, since March 2020.

[Keith Martin Gordey]

To be honest, I don't know how many have withdrawn. I do know that the amount of money that the Actra Fraternal Benefit Society manages on behalf of the performers who have contributed over the years is somewhere around $800 million, and it keeps growing. This is a safety net that also provides for the dental and eyeglasses expenses of performers, and that sort of thing.

We are constantly negotiating our agreements and modernizing them. We've negotiated the BCMPA in B.C., the IPA recently, and we are in the midst of negotiating the commercial agreement right now. We have many agreements. We work with the engagers to have something that works for everybody as part of collective bargaining, and it's a great thing that the Status of the Artist Act allows us to do that.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Yes, so you're sitting on a sizable $800 million. That's a sizable amount in your investment portfolio.

[Keith Martin Gordey]

Yes. The Actra Fraternal Benefit Society is an arm's-length organization started a number of years ago by four actors who said, “We need a little extra something to take care of us, because there isn't anything there.”

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

You see where I'm going. You have Mr. Michael, who couldn't get the deal done with Bell TV, and now he's on his own. He has three million subscribers on TikTok—

[Keith Martin Gordey]

That's wonderful.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

—so he has already left ACTRA and the other groups. He's on his own. I don't know if he participates in an RRSP, but with three million subscribers....

Mr. Michael, I'm going to turn to you. With 100% control of profits, how do you deal with that? All of a sudden you have three million, which you would never get on Bell, by the way, and now you have it on TikTok. Being a former Bell employee, I can tell you that you would never get three million viewers in a day, and you're getting that on TikTok.

Can you explain the financial aspect of this, because that's where this is going in the new century?