Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 5th, 2023

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Champoux's motion calls for Catherine Tait, the CEO of CBC and Radio-Canada, to testify on the job cuts.

We know that Ms. Tait, the head of CBC and Radio-Canada, has made the decision to cut 600 jobs, but we also know that when she was pressed during a media interview as to whether or not the executives would receive a bonus, she was not able to determine a definite no. In fact, she seemed very much to be leaving that window open, which would imply, then, that she is okay with cutting 600 media jobs while still giving big bonuses to the top executives of the company.

We know that Ms. Tait herself received a $60,000 bonus this last summer. That $60,000 is more than the average salary of a Canadian in this country. For Ms. Tait to determine that she's going to slash 600 jobs while still being okay with giving potentially millions of dollars, or tens of millions of dollars in bonuses, is absolutely ludicrous.

Not only does Ms. Tait need to come to this committee, but I would also offer an amendment to Mr. Champoux's motion. The amendment would read as follows toward the end. Following “period of two hours”, it would state, “and the committee report to the House that it calls on the government to instruct the CBC to immediately ban all executive bonuses”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

May I suggest that it's not an admissible amendment, because the government cannot tell the CBC what to do? It's an independent body.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

That's what I was going to say.

I wish we could.

However, the government can't do that. I entirely agree with my colleague, but I think we should put those questions to Ms. Tait. They're burning questions for us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Absolutely.

Mr. Julian, since I have decided that the amendment is inadmissible, are you speaking to the motion?

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

First, I'd like to state very clearly that it's incredible to be handing out bonuses when you're also cutting local jobs across the country.

I of course think it's important that Ms. Tait come and testify and answer these questions. They're making cuts and, at the same time, issuing bonuses to senior officials at CBC/Radio-Canada. That's a contradiction, and everyone can see it.

Now, that being said, I know that with Mr. Poilievre, no one at CBC would be working. They want to destroy the entire institution. I think it's a bit rich for any Conservative to say, “Well, we're concerned about the cuts.” They seem to be celebrating the cuts, and, tragically, Mr. Poilievre's tweet was inappropriate.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Madam Chair, I have a point of order. I would ask that the honourable member be respectful at committee.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Mr. Julian, let's try to minimize the political comment here.

Does anyone else have their hand up?

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Chair, I still have the floor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes. Go ahead, Peter.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

The reality is that her coming forward to testify on the cuts to local positions right across the country at the same time as there are executive bonuses for CBC executives, I think, is absolutely appropriate. My preference would be to have her come as early as next week, but if the committee's consensus is to have that as the first meeting when we get back, I'm fine with that, and I'll support this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

The second part of the motion says that “the committee prioritize this motion over all other current and future studies, so that the committee devote its first meeting” as we “return from the holiday recess”. I may remind the committee that you have asked the Minister of Sport to appear. She's appearing on Tuesday.

Is there any further discussion on the motion? We have witnesses, so please recall that it would be nice to get this dealt with.

Mr. Noormohamed.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I will be very brief.

First of all, I'm very much in support of what Mr. Champoux is trying to do here. Given that the Minister of Sport is coming next week, I especially appreciate the fact that we're doing this in the first meeting back, so that we do not take away that time with the Minister of Sport that we've all been asking for.

I agree with Mr. Julian. As a former CEO, I cannot possibly imagine having fired employees before Christmas and then contemplating taking a bonus. I think there are a lot of questions the CBC needs to be asked by Canadians and by this committee. As everyone in this room well knows, the government does not control the CBC; therefore, we can't tell them what to do, but I think it's very important for us as parliamentarians to ask Ms. Tait those very questions when she does appear, including questions about the appropriateness of executives contemplating bonuses.

Again, it is not for government to direct her, but I think it's important for us to ask her these difficult questions, because it's important that they be asked on behalf of Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Noormohamed.

Mr. Waugh.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I laugh when people say they get bonuses. Listen, I've been in the business a long time. Bonuses are given every year to Bell executives, to Rogers executives and to every executive in the media in this country. They get bonuses at the end of the year. The difference here is that this is a public institution, not a private one.

If the CBC decides to give bonuses, we can stand up and all decry that they're getting their bonuses, but this has been going on for decades in this business. This is not new.

What really disturbed me, Madam Chair, if you don't mind my saying it, is that the last time Ms. Tait was here, she knew these cuts were coming. It takes months of preparation to cut back 600 to 700 employees. This doesn't just happen in a week. She knew when she was at this committee that these were coming and at this time. CBC has done this in the past in December, and she knew full well in committee that they were prepared for a mass exodus of news journalists. That's where this should go.

As for bonuses, yes, we're all upset, but this has happened in the business, Madam Chair, for decades.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Now, if I see no hands up for further discussion....

Yes, we have Mrs. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

I take the point—thank you to the members of the committee. I would offer, then, a different amendment, if I may.

Again, we know that Ms. Catherine Tait, the head of the CBC and Radio-Canada, has said that she is slashing 600 jobs from the organization, and we know that she's left the door open to give bonuses to the top executives of the company.

I'm hearing from the committee that we all feel this is inappropriate. Therefore, the amendment I would add would be at the end of the motion. It would read, “and that the committee report to the House that it would be inappropriate for the CBC to give bonuses to executive members”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

It is an admissible amendment, that “it would be inappropriate....”

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Yes. It would be “inappropriate” or “imprudent”. Maybe we'll go with “inappropriate for the CBC to issue bonuses to executive members”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay. That's a statement, because we cannot decide that this can happen. As long as we're clear that we're not saying that it is inappropriate.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Absolutely. I'm sorry. Let me just adjust that a bit more: “and the committee report to the House that, given these job cuts, it would be inappropriate for the CBC to grant bonuses to executive members”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right. This is an amendment on the floor. I'd like to hear any discussion on the amendment.

Shall we vote, or...?

We now have only 10 minutes left. May I ask the witnesses to leave? I'm very well aware that we have witnesses sitting here, who came to speak to us, and we're keeping them waiting.

Martin.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Chair, I just want to point out that the meeting started at 8:22 this morning.

So we still have 15 minutes left.

I think we'd have the time to briefly consider the amendment and the motion, and there would also be a little time left for the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Champoux, I know you think we can quickly.... I have yet to see that happen at this committee, so let's decide.

Do we have the ability to go over time, past 22 minutes?

We have the room until 10:30, if the committee is interested, and if the witnesses can stay until 10:30.

Mrs. Thomas.