Canadian Heritage Committee on Jan. 30th, 2024

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

No. I would agree. I contrast this with the Fox disinformation network that doesn't issue corrections. They put out falsehoods, deliberate lies, and they stick to that.

Of course, with Fox, there is a mechanism, and that is the court system. Fox has paid well over a billion dollars now in libel lawsuits from false information impugning a whole range of people, organizations and corporations. It is part of their business model. They say outrageous things, and then they try to block the lawsuits. They've been very unsuccessful in blocking those lawsuits and have paid out massive amounts.

How many dollars over the last year has CBC had to pay in libel lawsuits in court-ordered payments compared to part of the Fox business model?

[Catherine Tait]

Well, certainly we have not paid out billions of dollars in lawsuits. We do have.... We'd have to get back to you on whether or not that's public information. It may be something that we disclose in our public documents. We do have funds set aside for defamation cases and to protect our journalism, and that's an important...by the way, another important role of the public broadcaster. We have fought many very critical lawsuits to protect the freedom of the press and the integrity of the press in a number of instances, but the actual precise number on an annual basis I don't have at hand.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Would it be fair to say that in part it's because you already have a process in place? You issue corrections. If something turns out to not be true, you have the CBC ombudsperson. Even the public, anybody...you don't have to have deep pockets and employ lawyers. You don't have to be a billionaire. If something is incorrect in CBC, you endeavour to correct it and make it right. This is something that my Conservative colleagues don't seem to understand about journalism.

Issuing a correction is actually a sign of strength in journalism, and the Fox disinformation network approach, where if you're a billionaire you can sue them and eventually get justice, is simply not a model that we should be using. Would you not say that the CBC has put into place a whole series of tools that somebody in my riding can use—

[Catherine Tait]

Absolutely.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

—if there is information that is not true?

[Catherine Tait]

I would say in addition to that the comment about CBC/Radio-Canada being a trusted network.... In those media surveys, CBC/Radio-Canada still ranks as the most trusted source of news in this country. Yes, numbers have come down, because social media is dragging all of the media down, but the reality is we are still number one in terms of trust.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to Ms. Thomas now for five minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Ms. Tait, I'm just curious. What study is that based on?

[Catherine Tait]

That's the Gustavson report from the University of Victoria.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

What's the sample size?

[Catherine Tait]

I'd have to check on that.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

How was the study completed?

[Catherine Tait]

They do it every year.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Okay. It just differs from other studies that have been done that show trust in the CBC is actually one of the worst trust levels out of any media company in the country. I just want to make sure that is juxtaposed. There, of course, are different sources—

[Catherine Tait]

I think you would want to look at the Gustavson.... It's a University of—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I'm sorry, Chair. I'll just ask the witness not to interrupt me or speak over me.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

She's talking about the Rebel News survey.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Go ahead.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Ms. Tait, you made mention before.... Actually, I'm sorry. This will be my question: I'm curious if you've hired any consultants during your time as CEO.

[Catherine Tait]

Over the six years that I've been at CBC/Radio-Canada, I personally do not hire consultants. I don't have a budget for that, but certainly in the company there have been consultants, yes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Okay.

Were consultants used to come to the determination that 800 jobs needed to be cut?

[Catherine Tait]

No.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

That determination was made on your own?

[Catherine Tait]

It was made as a result of an analysis of our financial situation—the structural deficit that we were facing—with the management team that you have before you, but also our CFO and others who aren't at the table, yes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Ultimately, who makes the recommendation that 800 jobs be cut?