Evidence of meeting #106 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbc.
A video is available from Parliament.
Chief Transformation Officer and Executive Vice-President, People and Culture, CBC/Radio-Canada
Last year, actually, it was under $15 million: $14.9 million was granted to a little more than 1,100 unaffiliated people who've contributed to the performance of the public broadcaster.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
You can understand, then, how Canadians, how I and how many of us react when you have a very important institution cutting positions that are vital for providing that information to Canadians, for telling us the stories about each other and about other regions of the country, but at the same time we see a significant level of performance pay that is provided.
You had said earlier in your testimony that this is something that is decided by the board of directors, but given the corporation's performance and the cuts, can you assure us that the recommendation would be to not continue that performance pay, at a time when we really have to ensure that the resources are directed to frontline journalism and to having Canadians learn about each other?
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
I think I've made it very clear that there's a process for evaluating not just executives but managers and employees who are not unionized at CBC/Radio-Canada, and that process will be respected by the team and also by the board of directors. What that means is that at the end of this fiscal year—which is not the year of the structural deficit as this year is balanced—they will have an opportunity to look, and we will have all the information we need to assess the financial picture for next year, at which point they will make that decision.
It is not my decision, and I'm afraid I cannot reassure you in what you're looking for.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
You can understand the public's reaction when it sees cuts in services and apprehended bonuses or bonuses that seem, at this point, likely to occur. You can understand how Canadians react.
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
I can understand people's concerns—of course I can.
I would like to also add that we have a—
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
—payroll of $950 million and the executive performance pay is at $15 million, so proportionately it's an extremely small number. We need to keep our talented managers, not just journalists. We absolutely honour and want to support their work, but we—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you very much, Ms. Tait. We've run out of time.
I'm going to a second round. It's a five-minute round.
I will begin with Luc Berthold from the Conservatives.
You have five minutes, Luc.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Good morning, Ms. Tait. It's good to see you back before the committee.
Ms. Tait, you said earlier that the bonuses totalled $15 million. We were talking about $16 million, which represents an average of $13,545 for each of the 1,100 people who received bonuses. From that perspective, our figures are more or less the same. I think it is important to point out that we were not entirely off base. It is still money that will not be used to prevent job cuts.
I would like you to explain the principle behind your decision. You said earlier that parliamentary appropriations were divided at 56% for the CBC and 44% for Radio-Canada, whereas for advertising revenues, the split was 54% for the CBC and 46% for Radio-Canada. Since it is more or less equal, you feel that you are making cuts equally on both sides. There is a difference, though. If you did not apply this so-called equivalency, up to 25 Radio-Canada employees would not lose their jobs.
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
If I may say so, that's not our approach at all. I can explain the team's approach. Each sector analyzes and looks at its services and the needs of its markets.
We ended up talking about 250 positions, but I should point out that this is a forecast. We don't know if it will be 250 positions. We still expect the market to improve—
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
That's what you said, though. So you created concern among Radio-Canada employees by saying that 250 positions would be eliminated. Based on the numbers, we would have expected 56—
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
It also affects CBC employees.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Yes, but we would have expected at least an equitable distribution based on revenues and appropriations. Unfortunately, that is not what you announced.
With regard to bonuses, how many evaluation criteria do you use in total to decide whether or not to pay a performance bonus?
Chief Transformation Officer and Executive Vice-President, People and Culture, CBC/Radio-Canada
So our program is built—
Chief Transformation Officer and Executive Vice-President, People and Culture, CBC/Radio-Canada
—in the following way. There are two parts to our program: an individual part and a part that involves corporate objectives. Those objectives are reviewed annually by the board of directors—
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Mr. Dubé, I don't want you to explain the whole program to me. I don't have time; I have only five minutes.
Earlier, Ms. Tait took the trouble to point out that targets had not been met in the case of two indicators and that, as a result, performance bonuses had been reduced.
So how many indicators are there?
Chief Transformation Officer and Executive Vice-President, People and Culture, CBC/Radio-Canada
We have seven indicators for the company. These indicators measure, for example, the company's digital performance, radio performance or revenue performance.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
At this point, how many of the seven targets have been met?
Chief Transformation Officer and Executive Vice-President, People and Culture, CBC/Radio-Canada
The fiscal year isn't over yet. We can tell you after March 31.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
I find it hard to see how, without forecasts, you can say at the end of a year that you don't want to run a deficit. You must have some idea of which targets will or won't be met.
Chief Transformation Officer and Executive Vice-President, People and Culture, CBC/Radio-Canada
We believe that we're on track to meet the targets for a number of these indicators. We still have a few months to go before the end of the fiscal year. We're facing a difficult financial situation. We've been dealing with a structural deficit for a long time. This is straining our ability to meet our targets and deliver our services to Canadians.
After the end of the fiscal year, we can give you more details.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Is it true that, in 2022‑23, not a single target was met?
Chief Transformation Officer and Executive Vice-President, People and Culture, CBC/Radio-Canada
In 2023, the target wasn't met for two indicators. This affected the amounts paid out to individuals.
Remember that incentive pay is a part of total compensation for the people hired.
January 30th, 2024 / 5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Yes, Ms. Tait explained this earlier.
However, I'm puzzled by the cuts to Radio‑Canada's French‑language services, despite their strong market penetration, high ratings and large overall budget. It seems that a broadcaster should be assessed according to the number of people reached. Unfortunately, we don't see this recognition from CBC/Radio‑Canada.