Canadian Heritage Committee on Jan. 30th, 2024

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you to my colleague Ms. Dhillon.

Ms. Tait, I want to ask you about your knowledge with respect to your position as chair of the Global Task Force for public media. You sort of have your finger on the pulse of what's going on around the world.

I know that at the BBC, which is one of the most trusted and creatively successful media companies in the world, they face deep cuts. I think they saw the end of their independent funding. I'm wondering if you can tell us what we can learn from their experience.

[Catherine Tait]

They have faced a lot of financial pressure, just as we have. I would say from my experience around the world that pretty well every public broadcaster is facing the same pressure. It's a situation not unique to CBC/Radio-Canada. We have a crisis in the media sector. People have turned from traditional media towards the digital giants. That is fundamentally undermining the financial health of the private media and also our own ability to keep Canadian consumers attached to our services.

In the case of the BBC, they started at such a level that even for us when we look at their cuts, honestly, it doesn't seem as though they should be complaining, but it is serious, because they are a leading public broadcaster.

Just to give you an idea, Tim Davie, the managing director of BBC, told me that they're investing a billion dollars a year in digital. That's a billion dollars a year. We have nowhere near that amount of money. The proportionality is so out of sync.

All I would say is that if you believe that the fight against disinformation is something that touches all Canadians, regardless of political stripe, the public broadcaster remains the single most effective tool that we as Canadians have to combat this disinformation. We are the only national media company in the country.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Is there any way to have a BBC at that quality and level without spending billions of dollars?

[Catherine Tait]

I'd say it's nothing short of a miracle what we deliver with the limited amount of money that we have: two languages, six time zones, eight indigenous languages, television, radio, digital, streaming, audio. It's spectacular the work that we do, and we could be more present in more communities.

CBC is not serving 35 communities in English Canada with populations of over 50,000. I'm thinking Sarnia. I'm thinking Red Deer. I'm thinking Medicine Hat. I'm thinking Sault Ste. Marie. All of those cities have no CBC presence, not one journalist.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Tait.

I'm going to move to Mr. Champoux for two and half minutes, please.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Ms. Tait, when you appeared before the committee in the fall, you announced that 800 positions would be eliminated at CBC/Radio‑Canada. You also announced $125 million in cuts. I found that tactless and that this created an atmosphere of uncertainty.

However, you're now saying that it won't be this year, that everything's fine this year, and that these forecasts are for next year, if things don't go well. I'm starting to think that your approach was quite clever.

Are you forcing the government's hand to ensure that the funding will be adjusted so that you don't need to make these budget cuts and job cuts at CBC/Radio‑Canada next year?

[Catherine Tait]

That's a rather cynical question.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Yes, and I stand by it.

[Catherine Tait]

Let me be crystal clear. We started negotiations with the Canadian Media Guild on October 16. Based on the rules for these kinds of negotiations with the unions, we must be transparent. We're trying to complete those negotiations by the end of February.

It's important to understand that if we hadn't announced the cutbacks in the fall and waited until the beginning of the next fiscal year in April, after concluding negotiations with a union as large as the Guild,

it's a legal case.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

If the Minister of Finance agreed to not impose the 3.3% cutbacks on para-governmental public agencies and Crown corporations, what effect would that have on CBC/Radio-Canada?

[Catherine Tait]

Are you talking about the 3.3%?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Yes. If those cutbacks don't happen, what effect would that have on future decisions? Would it have a significant impact?

[Catherine Tait]

That would help us, absolutely.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Okay.

What else can be done to help CBC/Radio-Canada avoid cutbacks to French services, as the plan is to make equal cuts to French and English services?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 30 seconds.

[Catherine Tait]

It would require a government investment, of course, to compensate for our losses. We also need to bring in more advertising revenue, especially in the Quebec market.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Will you forgo the $7-million share of the $100-million fund that Google is putting on the table as part of the agreement on Bill C‑18?

[Catherine Tait]

I'm sorry, I didn't quite understand.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Is CBC/Radio-Canada going to give up its 7% share of the $100-million Google deal?

[Catherine Tait]

Why?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

That $7 million would have a much greater impact on the regional media ecosystem in Quebec and Canada, particularly on weeklies or small regional radio stations, than on CBC/Radio-Canada.

[Catherine Tait]

I just said that we have no presence in 35 cities in English Canada—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Those are choices that CBC made a long time ago.

[Catherine Tait]

It's a question of resources. As soon as we managed to save $2.5 million in the travel budget, we deployed resources to CBC and hired 16 reporters last year, one in Lethbridge, one in Cranbrook, one in Grande Prairie.

As soon as we have the funds, we invest in journalist positions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I am sorry, guys. We've gone a minute over on Martin's time. I'm kind of letting everybody go because we have about 45 minutes left in this meeting. We're not cutting the clock as finely as we could, but still, if I'm going to let Martin go almost a minute over time, I'm going to have to let everybody else go as well. Let's hope people still try very hard to be crisp and say what they have to say in a shorter period of time.

We will now go to Peter Julian.

Peter, you have two and a half minutes, please.