Evidence of meeting #111 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was journalists.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Shree Paradkar  Columnist, Toronto Star Newspapers Limited, As an Individual
Sylvain Chamberland  Chief Executive Officer, ARSENAL MEDIA
Éric-Pierre Champagne  President, Fédération professionnelle des journalistes du Québec
Brandon Gonez  Chief Executive Officer, Gonez Media Inc.
Pierre Tousignant  President, Syndicat des travailleuses et travailleurs de Radio-Canada (FNCC-CSN)
Lana Payne  National President, Unifor

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Good afternoon, everyone. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 111 of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

I want to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Today, we are working in a hybrid format. As usual, there are many people virtually and many people in the room. While public health authorities have not mandated those in the room to wear a mask, I am suggesting that you do, even though I don't have one on.

I would like to take this opportunity to discuss some housekeeping.

You're not allowed to take pictures of this meeting. The meeting will be online and you'll be able to view it later on.

Every time you speak, please go through the chair.

This room is equipped with a powerful audio system. It is important that we don't get feedback, because it really affects the hearing of the interpreters. If you have any secondary devices, please don't put them close to your microphone because it could cause feedback.

Today we are studying the issue of a national forum on the media, and we have the following individuals.

We have Shree Paradkar, a columnist with Toronto Star Newspapers.

We have Sylvain Chamberland, chief executive officer of Arsenal Media.

We have Éric‑Pierre Champagne, president of the Fédération professionnelle des journalistes du Québec.

We have Brandon Gonez, chief executive officer of Gonez Media Inc.

We have Pierre Tousignant, president of the Syndicat des travailleuses et travailleurs de Radio‑Canada.

Finally, from Unifor, we have Lana Payne, national president, and Marc Hollin, national representative.

Each witness will have five minutes to speak for their group.

I will give you a 30-second shout to let you know that you should wrap up. You may not finish everything you want to say, but there will be a question-and-answer segment where you can elaborate on some of the things you didn't get to speak about.

We now begin with Ms. Paradkar. You may proceed for five minutes.

3:35 p.m.

Shree Paradkar Columnist, Toronto Star Newspapers Limited, As an Individual

Good afternoon, members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to share my views with regard to your study on the national forum on the media.

It won't be news to anybody present that the news media is teetering on the precipice of what is likely an extinction-level event. A decades-long decline appears to be accelerating, with ever more layoffs and shrinking revenues.

In the next five minutes, I plan to briefly outline the challenges that my industry faces and focus on one that I believe demands urgent and honest examination.

There are fundamental questions before us now. Do we want to save the industry? Do we believe in an independent media that is not a propaganda tool for any political party or for any vested agendas that do not serve the public interest? Do you as MPs believe journalism is an important function of democracy? Do you believe Canadian society would function more justly if we had eyes on city council, on the police, on the health and education systems, on indigenous affairs, on federal affairs and on you?

If the answers are yes, then comes this question: What are the challenges facing the industry? In broad terms, I would put them into two buckets. One is financial troubles. The other is trust.

The financial troubles facing the industry are well known. Indeed, internal town halls in newsrooms have long been filled with doom and gloom for more than a decade. These troubles stem from a steady drop in ad revenue, subscription models that have never been the lifeblood of news organizations but are being relied upon now to rescue companies, consumers who have been burnt out by information overload on social media and may not find news relevant enough to support it, and social media sites that are no longer promoting news articles.

Solutions to financial challenges may look like but are not limited to non-profit models for news companies, soliciting donations rather than subscriptions, the government facilitating licensing agreements with AI companies to use the content that the news industry creates, and perhaps facilitating private funding for independent investigative journalism.

However, the point I wish to focus on is the second one: trust in the media.

A study in 2022 produced by the Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism at the University of Oxford found that trust in Canadian news media had dropped 13% since 2016. The study's authors wanted to measure public perceptions of polarization on the media landscape, so they asked respondents if they thought the news media was independent from undue political and business influences “most of the time”. Instead, they found that half of the respondents said they considered mainstream news organizations to be politically close to each other. That response suggested that one of the many causes of distrust is the perceived lack of diversity in both media ownership and the perspectives offered.

Another U.K. study found a relationship between a lack of trust in journalism and low levels of news literacy among the population. Its recommendations to build confidence and trust among audiences involved improving journalism standards and ensuring that the regulation of news standards be operated independently of the news industry.

These studies and reports confirm what journalists like me see on the ground, which is that the fundamental gatekeeping function of a news organization—the daily decisions that answer the question “What is news?”—is perceived to be biased, that people on various sides of the political spectrum do not see the media representing their viewpoints or interests, that historically excluded communities continue to be misrepresented in the news and that journalists disproportionately come from homogenous backgrounds.

The latest survey by the Canadian Association of Journalists found that Canadian newsrooms are still overwhelmingly white, with 75.5 % of their staff coming from that racial background. It gets worse at the supervisory level, which is 84% white. In addition, Black journalists are the most likely to work in part-time or intern roles compared to full-time or supervisory roles. Far too many newsrooms have no indigenous journalists, and while women make up more than half the workforce, they are more than 60% likely to be in part-time roles.

As much as the diversity of journalists is about racial and ethnic backgrounds, it is also about economic backgrounds. A U.K. study found that 80% of its journalists had a parent in one of the three highest occupational groups, compared to 42% of all U.K. workers. In Canada, too, industry norms such as unpaid internships, poor full-time job opportunities and poorly paid full-time jobs create substantial barriers for aspiring journalists from lower-income backgrounds.

However, there is little purpose in bringing people from different backgrounds if the perspectives they bring are not valued. This was apparent in the coverage of issues such as #MeToo, the racial reckoning of 2020, gender identity issues today and the COVID pandemic. One current example is the coverage of Israel's assault on Gaza, which itself stemmed from Hamas' attacks in Israel on October 7. North American analysis shows media outlets are found to be overwhelmingly skewing their coverage in favour of Israel.

The continuing reality is that women and other minoritized journalists who challenge the status quo are disproportionately at the receiving end of harassment, threats and abuse, a phenomenon that has been adequately documented, even by the United Nations. Where they were trolled initially by strangers, the attacks that led to dog-piling then began to come from journalists and other professionals and are, regrettably, being normalized by politicians. These intimidation and silencing tactics create a chill in the free expression of a diversity of perspectives. This, in turn, feeds a distrust of media within communities. To counter these effects, government should boost laws and regulations that robustly support journalists who are under attack.

When the audience does not feel connected to fact-based news, it leaves little incentive for individuals to financially support it. In other words, without trust or without the idea that ordinary citizens benefit from the news media, there is little hope of financially resuscitating the industry through them.

In conclusion, anyone embarking on solutions to rescue the news industry will have to wrestle with how to support fact-based news in an information ecosystem that rewards polarity, how to invest in diverse perspectives in news, making—

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you, Ms. Paradkar.

Can you wrap up, please?

3:45 p.m.

Columnist, Toronto Star Newspapers Limited, As an Individual

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Mea culpa. The chair let you go on for an extra two minutes.

I'm sorry, everybody.

3:45 p.m.

Columnist, Toronto Star Newspapers Limited, As an Individual

Shree Paradkar

Do I have 10 seconds to wrap up?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

No, you have no time left. Thank you very much.

3:45 p.m.

Columnist, Toronto Star Newspapers Limited, As an Individual

Shree Paradkar

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Now I'll go to Arsenal Media and Sylvain Chamberland, who is the president and CEO.

Go ahead, Sylvain.

3:45 p.m.

Sylvain Chamberland Chief Executive Officer, ARSENAL MEDIA

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon, honourable members.

I would like to begin by thanking you for allowing me to share my observations and comments on a sensitive topic that, in my opinion, directly affects the maintenance of a healthy democracy: the future of news media, specifically, independent commercial radio stations located outside major urban centres. This invitation means a lot to me, so thank you.

My name is Sylvain Chamberland and I have been working in media for over 35 years. I worked at Éditions Transcontinental and as the general manager of news and information at TVA. I was also the president and CEO of Radiomédia, a network owned at the time by Astral Media. After that, I was the news director at Radio-Canada, so I handled francophone services, and vice-president of business development at Quebecor. Twelve years ago, I founded ARSENAL MEDIA, and I've been the president and CEO of ARSENAL MEDIA since its inception. Lastly, I'm also the president of the Association des radios régionales francophones, an association of regional radio stations in Quebec, New Brunswick and Ontario.

I'd like to say a few words about ARSENAL MEDIA, a fully independent media company that has built a unique business model. The company is not publicly traded, does not belong to a conglomerate and receives very little in the way of government subsidies.

With ARSENAL MEDIA, I wagered on regional news and media when nobody else was really interested in it. Over the past 12 years, ARSENAL MEDIA has become Quebec's largest independent group of commercial radio stations outside the Montreal and Quebec City markets. ARSENAL MEDIA has 75 employees located everywhere from Abitibi, Sept-Îles, Lac-Mégantic and Témiscouata to central Quebec, the Lower St. Lawrence, the Gaspé, the Saguenay and beyond. We are present across Quebec.

ARSENAL MEDIA also includes 10 regional digital news platforms, several other websites on various topics of interest, two e-commerce stores and a digital creation studio.

Of course, ARSENAL MEDIA is also the voice of 18 radio stations and seven transmitting stations. Last week, we acquired seven former Bell Media stations, the entirety of Bell's assets sold in Quebec. If the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission approves this transaction, we'll have 25 stations and seven transmitting stations all across Quebec, in addition to 15 regional news platforms. This will make ARSENAL MEDIA Quebec's largest broadcaster.

Needless to say, some of the communities we serve are media deserts, where we are one of the few news and information sources. Our arrival on the Quebec communications scene disrupted the status quo in the province's media landscape. We are now more determined than ever to be the local and regional news leader. We want to ensure that all Quebeckers can get relevant information that matters to them. I would add that it should be that way for all Canadians. They should be getting their news from all the radio stations that already exist in Canada.

I would also add that ARSENAL MEDIA is very involved in the communities we serve, donating tens of thousands of dollars to schools and community organizations every year.

It's time for the federal government and all elected officials to support local radio stations outside major urban centres, which do essential work providing news and information to the local population. I believe that support for journalism should not be limited to a single type of media, nor should it benefit those operating in just a few large regions of the country. That's the problem, in my opinion. Now, more than ever, support for news and information needs to help all the people working to keep all Canadians informed.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

You have 30 seconds.

3:50 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, ARSENAL MEDIA

Sylvain Chamberland

Right now, regional commercial radio is losing big. We're getting the short end of the stick compared to print media, television, community radio and, of course, CBC/Radio-Canada. Commercial radio stations that produce news are being treated as a less worthy news source.

I will close by saying that making sure at least a minimum amount of information reaches all parts of the country is the best way to protect the health of our democracy. For that reason alone, honourable members, you should pay close and immediate attention to this unfair situation that threatens the future and stability of Canadian society.

Thank you for your attention.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you, Mr. Chamberland.

We'll go to Éric-Pierre Champagne, president of Arsenal Media.

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC

Madam Chair, Mr. Champagne is the president of the Fédération professionnelle des journalistes du Québec.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Okay. Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Éric-Pierre Champagne President, Fédération professionnelle des journalistes du Québec

The president of ARSENAL MEDIA is next to me.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I'm sorry. I mixed you up.

We'll go to Éric-Pierre Champagne for five minutes, please.

3:50 p.m.

President, Fédération professionnelle des journalistes du Québec

Éric-Pierre Champagne

Thank you for inviting me to take part in the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage's study.

My name is Éric‑Pierre Champagne, and I am the president of the Fédération professionnelle des journalistes du Québec, or FPJQ, the largest association of journalists in Canada. With some 1,600 members, the FPJQ brings together freelancers, employees and managers in all areas of media communication: reporters, researchers, filmmakers, communicators, columnists and news photographers. Since 1969, the FPJQ has stood up for a free press and the public's right to know, giving journalists a voice wherever necessary. I have been a journalist for some 30 years. I have spent more than 22 of those years at La Presse, where I specialize in environmental issues.

Thank you for taking an interest in the future of media and journalism. I am here to share the perspective of Quebec's journalists. It is their job to inform the public in an increasingly difficult environment. I want to underscore the importance of keeping in mind the real issues we are facing. The media crisis is much too important of a societal issue to be summarized in a few clichés. The truth is that journalism is more important than ever in an increasingly polarized society. Also true is that fewer and fewer of us are doing this increasingly challenging work. In a decade, from 2010 to 2020, our workforce shrunk by 23% in Canada. I'll ask the same question Amélie Daoust‑Boisvert, a professor of journalism at Concordia University, asked: If Canada's justice system had lost a quarter of its workforce in 10 years, would we remain indifferent?

As we lose journalists year after year, the world is becoming more—not less—complex. The skill set and knowledge required to do the job continue to grow. Meanwhile, the number of people doing the work is shrinking, as is the time in which to do it. Is a journalist's job that hard? The answer is yes. The bar is high. Like elected officials, we do our job in the public eye. In just a few years, the climate has gotten worse. What used to be rare has become normal, as we face harassment and hate unlike anything we've ever seen. The pressure on journalists is tremendous. Despite all the challenges, we keep practising a profession we consider vital in a democratic society. The men and women doing this work deserve respect.

As we now know, the media business model is broken. Some 80% of digital advertising dollars in Canada go to web giants Meta and Google. Those revenues and profits leave the country never to return. That leaves 20% of the advertising pie for Canada's media organizations to share. Think about it. Name one industry that could survive such a drastic drop in revenue.

Producing news content isn't free. Tuesday, Colette Brin, a professor at Université Laval, told the committee that producing quality news is expensive. For lack of better data, here are some 2018 figures courtesy of Unifor: covering a straightforward news item costs $331, covering a complex news item costs $935, and producing an investigative report costs $10,710.

As our media outlets continue to inform the public in the face of the storm, we struggle to hold our own against the foreign giants. In a letter that appeared today in La Presse, the chair of the board of Cogeco, Louis Audet, illustrated that clearly. In 2024, advertisers can still deduct advertising dollars spent on foreign digital platforms like Meta for tax purposes. That is absurd as our media outlets die a slow death.

While those in the media look for solutions—and, I assure you, they are looking—it's important to keep in mind why we need media and journalists working to inform the public.

In its latest report, the World Economic Forum identified disinformation as one of the biggest global risks in the next few years. What a troubling—if not terrifying—prospect as artificial intelligence systems take hold.

Here is a chilling statistic. According to a study by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, fake news spreads six times faster than real news. Think about that.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

You have 30 seconds.

3:55 p.m.

President, Fédération professionnelle des journalistes du Québec

Éric-Pierre Champagne

The diminishing number of journalists to inform the public creates an even more fertile breeding ground for disinformation. The best way to fight disinformation is the truth.

The last point I want to make is about trust. Much has been said about the breakdown in the public trust in the media. The survey results aren't very encouraging. According to some, the media are no longer relevant—end of story. However, I want to share some of the results of a Léger survey on the public's trust in various professions. Firefighters are at the top of the list, trusted by 95% of people, MPs and ministers are trusted by 31% of people, and journalists are trusted by 48%. No one, however, is calling for our political system to be dismantled because so few people trust elected officials.

That is why news and information are important. Journalists, like media, are not perfect, but the work they do is essential.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you.

We'll now go to Brandon Gonez, chief executive officer of Gonez Media.

Mr. Gonez, you have five minutes. I'll give you a 30-second shout.

3:55 p.m.

Brandon Gonez Chief Executive Officer, Gonez Media Inc.

Thank you.

As a little background about me, I'm a former broadcaster. I used to work for Bell Media and Corus Entertainment. I started my career in the second-smallest market in this country, in northwestern British Columbia, in the town of Smithers. Before leaving mainstream media, I worked for Bell Media in the largest market in this country, in Toronto.

I have a unique experience working for our largest broadcasters in this country, but I also have a unique experience because I left, in the midst of the pandemic, to start my own digital media company, called Gonez Media. Since then, we've acquired legacy publications and turned them digital. We have a team of nearly 20 folks. More than half are journalists, with many of them coming from legacy organizations, having been laid off and severely impacted by the media crisis.

I want to talk about the impact of legislation on this country, particularly Bill C-18. As a digital-first media company, we never asked for this legislation. We found a new model that worked for us, that was sustainable and that was providing new opportunities, especially for journalists of colour in this country, who for far too long have been told that they don't belong in newsrooms across this country or who have experienced discrimination and racism. We changed that model, and we're now one of Canada's fastest-growing online media companies.

When Bill C-18 came about, we were severely impacted. We lost our pages on Meta-owned platforms such as Instagram and Facebook, which were literally the platforms we built our business model on. Our revenue impact was a more than 40% loss. We were at risk of literally doing the exact same thing that legacy media companies had done to our staff.

One of the issues I have in particular is that the heritage minister at the time was quoted as saying that media companies affected by this block would be made whole. We have not been made whole. In fact, we have had to be agile, to innovate and to find new ways to sustain our business and our model.

One thing I would like everybody here to really focus on is that a lot of digital-first media companies are really agile. They don't have the resources to hire lobbyists to be here in Ottawa to advocate for them like legacy media companies do. When we and this government are approaching tech giants for funds, coming from the legacy sector, I do understand the importance of supporting that. I think there is an ecosystem that can sustain all different facets of media. However, if you're trying to draw money from tech giants and the bulk of that money is going to legacy companies that didn't adapt and build a business model that can be sustained in this current environment, and then you're leaving digital-first companies on the sidelines, that doesn't make sense.

What I've always wanted is for Canada to be a leader in the world, to foster a whole new ecosystem where we can have digital-first companies providing news, entertainment and culture content right to Canadians, right to their fingertips, using the devices they use. Everybody in this room has a cellphone. We found a way to create, in a different medium, the exact same content my peers have been doing for years and found a way to do it sustainably and profitably, creating a growth industry.

Th legislation put forth and the rules around it have literally harnessed and chained us, and it's really disappointing because a lot of digital-first companies are led by people who look like me—people of colour—and women. I can tell you we are one of the larger organizations, but when I talk to my peers, whose companies are a lot smaller, I hear they are at the brink of closing their doors, meaning we are going to be left with an ecosystem of companies that are living only because of government funding.

Before this legislation came into place, we did not accept one dollar from the government. We did not apply for any of that. We were sustainable and profitable.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

You have 30 seconds.

4 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Gonez Media Inc.

Brandon Gonez

We had an audience that was glad we were creating content and doing so in such a way that they could receive it and access it.

One thing we learned during the pandemic, which is why I left legacy media, was that there was a gap between getting information and getting it to Canadians. We found a way to fill that gap, and we wanted to be a model, a successful model. It's so unfortunate that this legislation has led to one of the world's biggest tech giants, where most Canadians literally access entertainment and information.... Now they can't do that. What are they left with?

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Please wrap up, Mr. Gonez.