Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 15th, 2024

[Brandon Gonez]

The quality of journalism is in the understanding that trained journalists are going to be good journalists. How journalists progress in their careers is based on the quality of leadership they have and whether they have good leadership and good news producers who are constantly pushing them to check their blind spots and constantly pushing them to make sure they are incorporating voices that are left out of the conversation. Whether you agree with the voices or not, they're still part of the conversation and represent part of the population. That is still important.

Some people might look at me and say they don't want to hear from a certain type of person based on how they look. No. I want to hear what you have to say, but you better respect what I have to say too. That's how media should be. We have to properly and accurately reflect as many voices as possible. At the end of the day, you're never going to get everybody's voice at the table. Nothing is perfect in this world, but you have to try, and you have to keep trying.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Mr. Gonez.

We're moving on now to the Liberals for five minutes with Mr. Noormohamed.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being here. I know there are a lot of you here and there's a lot of ground to cover.

One of the things I've been reflecting on is the report that was written by the Macdonald-Laurier Institute, by Peter Menzies and Konrad von Finckenstein, who provided a series of recommendations in respect of how we can think about reframing the media climate in this country and how we can think about supporting journalism. One of the recommendations they made—and I would love your thoughts on this—was to allow “[a]ll expenditures by Eligible News Businesses that involve investment in digital transformation” to be claimed as a capital cost. That's a very specific recommendation, but I think of the context of the transformation of media, the context of how we enable the media to survive and thrive in an entirely new era, when we have seen print publications and others not able to make the jump into digital in a meaningful and thoughtful way.

I'm happy for anyone to jump in on this. What are your thoughts on that? What challenges do you see in making sure the quality of the work produced is able to be maintained in a context where you are enabling an entire move to digital and you're doing it in a way that allows a writeoff of capital costs quickly? Do you think there are risks to that?

[Brandon Gonez]

I just want to make sure...because I'm hearing a bit of a theme here that if you're doing digital, quality might suffer. That's not the case. You have to go through the same ethics and the same steps to produce a proper report, whether it's on TV, on radio, in the paper—in anything. I just want to make sure that's what's being—

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Just to be clear, that's not what I'm saying. The question is more like this: How do you ensure that what is news is actually news? It's in that context. We have quality journalism. We have people who are doing their best, and then we have folks who go out into the field and decide that they're journalists. How do you draw that distinction in a way that allows for credible news to continue to make its way to the fore without being subsumed by stuff that might not necessarily be credible and that might be considered veritable misinformation?

[Brandon Gonez]

That's based on the outlet making sure that it's presenting the right information. It doesn't matter which medium you're on. You're going to have talking heads and you're going to have reporters. You're going to have opinion pieces and op-eds, and you're going to have factual reports. That's always going to be the case.

I want to address one thing really quickly. When we are talking about placing funds for digital transformation, newspapers, for a long time, had to decide whether to go digital, and a lot of companies decided to maintain what they were doing. That was their choice. What it did allow, though, was room for opportunity for new innovators to come in, for entrepreneurs to step into that field and fill those gaps. I think that's amazing.

In terms of any funds that are being discussed and explored, if there is going to be a portion that goes to digital transformation, I want to see newspapers sustained and I want to see legacy outlets that have been here for 40, 50 or 60 years remain today because there is trusted value in them. However, we should also make sure there's room and there's money attached for people who took a risk so they can continue to grow, because people who take a risk shouldn't be hindered.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I want to come back to that very point.

I know Mr. Champagne wants to jump in, and I think Mr. Tousignant wants to jump in, but I want to come back to the second point, Mr. Gonez, after they've had a chance to respond.

[Éric-Pierre Champagne]

I'll temporarily stop speaking to you as president of the FPJQ and start speaking as a journalist who has been working at La Presse for 22 years. I think that most people here don't read French, so they don't know the situation at La Presse. For a number of years now, La Presse hasn't published a paper edition. We're entirely digital. The company that I work for posted $13 million in profits last year. La Presse is now a not‑for‑profit organization. It doesn't belong to a private owner, a consortium or anyone else.

I applaud the enthusiasm of my colleague here. However, it isn't true that traditional media are failing to embrace change and make an effort. I'm a living example. We just hired new journalists, and we were recently told that 10 new journalists would be hired in the coming year.

It's possible, even for traditional media, to make this shift and to continue providing information to the public. We're the most widely read French‑language daily in North America.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

In my opinion, it's...

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Noormohamed, you have two seconds left.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I wanted to give Mr. Tousignant a chance to speak about this issue, but maybe he can do so later.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

I'll go to Mr. Champoux for two and a half minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll keep this short because two and a half minutes go by quickly.

Mr. Champagne, I'll ask you three questions about the national forum that the current study aims to organize.

First, which news media groups or sectors would have the necessary credibility, from the perspective of all the industry stakeholders, to organize this national forum? The discussion will involve everyone, and will probably cover topics that are difficult for some industry stakeholders to address. Who could organize this event?

Second, what key topics should be discussed? Obviously, government funding could be on the agenda. However, I think that the greater focus will be on the news media's business model. What topics should be prioritized?

Third, if you have the time, can you tell me what role the governments should play in this study? In your opinion, what role should both the provincial and federal governments play in this discussion?

I'll let you respond.

[Éric-Pierre Champagne]

You're talking about a Canada-wide national forum, right?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Absolutely.

[Éric-Pierre Champagne]

It may be a bit hard for me to answer this question, since it concerns the whole country.

Many stakeholders are involved in this issue. We saw this at Tuesday's meeting. Most of the participants were professors, so people who take an interest in journalists and who teach and conduct research.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

The academic sector would have the necessary credibility and respect.

[Éric-Pierre Champagne]

I'm thinking of the academic sector, for example. Obviously, there can't be any national forum without journalists. This means journalists such as my colleague here and me, along with journalists from other places. We also need to hear from media bosses and people in various social groups.

I've been hearing all sorts of comments, especially about public trust in the media. We need to take note of these comments, but also put things in context. A Statistics Canada study released this week shows a strong correlation between public trust in the media and public trust in institutions. I don't think that we talk about this enough. It's one thing that must be addressed.

Another issue is revenue. We need to talk about that too, of course. Earlier, I wanted to show how much it costs to produce news. Quality news is even more expensive to produce. It takes more time and requires checks to make sure that the work is done properly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 20 seconds.

[Éric-Pierre Champagne]

This issue must be addressed.

What do we need? The voices of different communities must be heard. Traditional media have sometimes failed in their duty to better represent certain new voices, both in Quebec and in Canada. We need to look at all these issues from a broader perspective, and not from a strictly political perspective. In reality, this crisis affects society as a whole.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

In other words, we politicians should get out of the way and turn this over to you.

[Éric-Pierre Champagne]

I'm not telling you to get out of the way.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

No, I'm just joking.

[Éric-Pierre Champagne]

However, I don't want this issue used for political purposes. It's a societal crisis.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I completely agree with you.

Thank you, Mr. Champagne.

I believe that my time's up.