Canadian Heritage Committee on May 7th, 2024

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I am asking you for the substance of what it is going to be considering, the content.

[Marco Dubé]

We are going to be looking at how we organize our resources so we can continue the digital transition, in a universe where conventional linear media are in decline and audiences are going over to the digital giants' platforms. We want to continue to be a relevant public broadcaster.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Now I'm going to go to the Liberals and Marc Serré.

Marc, you have five minutes.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I think there's a correction here. I think it's Taleeb.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Then I should be informed about it, please.

It's Mr. Noormohamed.

Monsieur Serré, I'm sorry.

Taleeb, you are up next for five minutes.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Tait, one of the things I'd like to focus a little bit on.... When I was in the room and then while I was out, I was still following some of the conversation that was going on. I want to spend a little bit of time talking about the way in which the CBC, looking forward, thinks about the importance of regional programming, regional representation, and the conversations that CBC is going to be a part of in terms of ensuring that Canadians have access to Canadian content from across this country, particularly from small communities, rural communities and indigenous communities. How are you thinking about them in the construct of the current environment?

[Catherine Tait]

To that question, Madam Chair, I asked one of my colleagues, in preparation for this appearance today, how many hours of content we produce every year. The answer was 2.6 million hours of radio and television content, 7,000 hours per day, 600 articles on cbc.ca and radio-canada.ca, and 80% of those articles are from the regions.

You call it the regions. Anything outside of Toronto and Montreal is the core of our service. When we talk about our competitive advantage vis-à-vis digital giants, it's our proximity to Canadians. That's why we double down on libraries, and we're present and focused on newcomers. We can't assume that somebody who has just moved to Canada will have that long-term relationship with either Radio-Canada or CBC. That's why we produce a show like Lakay Nou to reach Haitian francophones in Montreal and across Canada.

I can say that just as we're working on a transformation plan, we're also preparing our next strategic plan. Again, this is not to tie the hands of my successor but to prepare him or her with as much information as possible so that they are as well prepared as they possibly can be and hit the road running. The reality is that they will have to launch a new strategic plan in the first six months of their tenure, and so we've done that work.

The number one priority is proximity, our presence in community. That is the power of CBC/Radio-Canada.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I'm digging into this a bit. You know it's the playoffs. Over the course of the the season, a lot of people have enjoyed Hockey Night in Canada in different languages. That was an important step on the part of CBC.

What's the impact?

[Catherine Tait]

It's not just Hockey Night in Canada. It's sports in general. One of the ways we reach Canadians is through amateur sports. We are the only broadcaster showing the hundreds and hundreds of amateur athletes—female athletes and para athletes—and giving them a platform.

When we talk about Hockey Night in Canada or the playoffs, it's fantastic. We have over a million viewers tuning in to CBC. To say CBC television is no longer relevant...it is the only place where Canadians can watch the hockey games they love for free. Remember that. Otherwise, it's behind a paywall.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Let's talk about the consequences of cuts. I think there was a lot of feigned outrage about the possibility of steps that you might take. I think there was some concern about what that might look like.

I think the bigger question is.... We've heard from members opposite their desire to basically put a “for sale” sign on the CBC, gut it and turn the offices into God knows what. Sell the CBC. Get rid of it. Gut it. We've heard all kinds of different expressions, yet, they say something else to people in Quebec. They say, “Oh no, we're going to save Radio-Canada, but we're going to gut the CBC.”

Realistically, can you talk a bit about the intertwining of those operations, particularly in places like my hometown of Vancouver, where Radio-Canada and the CBC work from the same offices and many of the reporters and camerapeople do double duty? Walk us through that.

How ridiculous is this assertion that you could completely gut and destroy the CBC, but somehow save Radio-Canada?

[Catherine Tait]

I don't feel comfortable commenting on any political position regarding the future of CBC/Radio-Canada. It's not appropriate for me to comment on that.

However, what I can say is we know that 80% of Canadians believe that CBC/Radio-Canada has a role to play in the future of this country. We know that 75% of Canadians consider CBC/Radio-Canada to be the most trusted source of credible news in this country. The Leger brand reputation study, released last month, indicated that CBC/Radio-Canada is the top brand among media companies in this country.

Therefore, in my mind, dismantling the CBC, which serves 30 million Canadians—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Please wrap up your answer, Ms. Tait. Thank you.

[Catherine Tait]

—would be not listening to those 80% of Canadians who believe it's extremely important, and of growing importance, for this country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I'll go to the Bloc and Martin for two and a half minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Tait, we hear about the problems experienced by the CBC, which may be a bit envious of Radio-Canada's successes, and with good reason, because Radio-Canada is a broadcaster that Quebeckers and francophone Canadians everywhere in the country value highly.

We hear about the CBC's setbacks and the current difficulties in the market. I am among those who believe very firmly that it is important to have a public broadcaster. I believe the CBC is essential to Canadian democracy and Radio-Canada is essential to Quebec and francophone culture and to preserving that culture. I think it is essential to keep them both.

However, I also think it is possible that the battle is being fought on the wrong front. I sometimes get the feeling that other ways of saving our public broadcaster, on both the English and French sides, are not being considered. How much does the public broadcaster cost Canadians a year? Do people know? There are people saying we have to stop funding CBC/Radio-Canada because the corporation costs a fortune and is a money pit.

[Catherine Tait]

The annual cost is $33 per capita.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Are we competitive?

[Catherine Tait]

We are in 16th place worldwide among public broadcasters.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Give me some examples. How does CBC/Radio-Canada compare with the BBC?

[Catherine Tait]

Per capita, the BBC costs five times more than CBC/Radio-Canada, while ZDF and ARD, in Germany, cost eight times more.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Do you think we should explore that avenue? Would it enable the CBC to be independent and profitable, and Radio-Canada to be vibrant and independent? Would this also be the opportunity to breathe a little life into the private sector, which would no longer have the public broadcaster in the way when the advertising pie is being divided up?

Do you think that avenue should be explored by the current government? We know the next government is not likely to do it.

[Catherine Tait]

Are you talking about splitting them?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I am not talking about making them into two entities. I want both entities to be viable without worrying about either one. Right now, the CBC is facing big challenges, for both the present and the future.

[Catherine Tait]

The CBC is also enjoying tremendous success when it comes to television. It is doing terrifically. Radio-Canada's success in the television market is still exceptional.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

There are good products and good content, I agree, Ms. Tait. However, there are major financial challenges, as there are for other broadcasters too. The advertising pie is currently divided among a number of players and the digital giants are sucking its lifeblood. We want to protect the CBC and Radio-Canada from the siren call of advertising, so that we have appropriate funding that is comparable to what we see in equivalent countries.

Do you think that would be a solution, to breathe some life into it and take a bit of weight off the shoulders of the broadcasting system as a whole?