Canadian Heritage Committee on May 7th, 2024

[Catherine Tait]

You're talking about about television. Our KPIs are on a digital future. Our audiences have moved to digital.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

How do you do TV then? How do you assess TV?

I don't know how many CBC stations are doing very well in the ratings in this country. Maybe you can provide that after this meeting.

[Catherine Tait]

I'm happy to do so.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Okay.

If you don't use KPI on television, what what do you use?

[Catherine Tait]

We look at our results. For example, one of our KPIs—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have one second left.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Please provide me and the committee with the ratings of CBC locally, coast to coast on the six o'clock newscast, if you don't mind.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Kevin.

I now go to the Liberals. I have Anna Gainey on the list, so unless the Liberals have changed their lineup, let me know.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Marc can go, sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Marc Serré, for five minutes, please.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Tait, you may know that my father, Gaétan Serré, was a member of parliament from 1968 to 1972. In 1971, he tabled a 21,000-signature petition from the region of Sudbury, in northern Ontario, for Radio-Canada to be available in that region. I am very proud of the work that people like my father did to get access to Radio-Canada programming. Obviously, I often listen to Le matin du Nord, for northern Ontario.

I have a real problem with the Conservatives' attacks when they talk about CBC/Radio-Canada. As well, I would like Mr. Champoux, on behalf of the Bloc, to say a bit about the importance of the francophonie outside Quebec.

We hear the Conservatives saying that they want to defund the CBC and my colleague Mr. Noormohamed talked about that a little earlier. In that scenario, I would like to know what to do so that minority communities like Sudbury, in northern Ontario, can still have access to Radio-Canada programming. Would you need more money for Radio-Canada, since it shares buildings and equipment with the CBC? I would like to hear your comments about that. How can we preserve the calibre of Radio-Canada in official language minority communities if the CBC is completely defunded by the Conservatives?

[Catherine Tait]

It will be very difficult, almost impossible.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

I do not know whether the Bloc agrees, but if the Conservatives completely defund the CBC—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

A point of order, Madam Chair.

My colleague Mr. Serré is insinuating things that look a bit more like the kind of political spin we would normally see play out in the House of Commons. In committee, could we maintain a slightly loftier tone? The Bloc has never talked about wanting to shut down or defund the CBC. That has never been an issue. I have just now made a fairly clear point on that subject. On the contrary, I hope that the CBC will be strengthened and made more viable, while Radio-Canada is also protected. I just wanted to make that clear.

Mr. Serré, let's keep the spin for elsewhere.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Champoux, you are also no stranger to spin. However, on behalf of francophones in minority communities, I am very happy to hear your clarification that the Bloc Québécois will be supporting Radio-Canada everywhere in the country. Thank you.

Ms. Tait, I have a lot of trouble with the position taken by the Conservatives, who want to defund the CBC. You said that in that scenario, it would be very difficult for Radio-Canada to survive. What do you mean by “very difficult”? If the CBC is defunded, would all Radio-Canada stations in the country be shut down, apart from the ones in Montreal and Quebec?

[Catherine Tait]

In fact, we do not know what the entire proposal is. I cannot guess the impact—

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

The Conservatives are clear: They want to completely defund the CBC. That amounts to billions of dollars.

[Catherine Tait]

They are talking about a billion dollars. However, as you say, that billion dollars does not relate only to CBC/Radio-Canada outside Quebec. It affects Quebec too. A billion dollars is more than half our budget. If that amount is cut, it would be a disaster for francophone media outside Quebec, for sure, but it would also be a disaster for the CBC.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

I hope my Conservative and New Democrat colleagues understand the situation. The leader of the Conservative Party is currently travelling all over the country talking about defunding the CBC, and that is an irresponsible position. As a francophone, I do not understand why the other parties in the House of Commons are not taking a clear position on the importance of not touching the CBC and Radio-Canada, because, otherwise, it will be hard for us to guarantee that they are present in official language minority communities.

Ms. Tait, mention was made of Le matin du Nord, but I would also like to talk about the importance of indigenous programming in northern Ontario. Can you tell us about that as well?

[Catherine Tait]

The role of the public broadcaster is to serve all Canadians. That means that we work for indigenous communities and for official language minority communities. Even if it is not profitable, it is our mandate. We are well aware that our service is vital for people who live in French outside Quebec.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Ms. Tait.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Marc.

I now go to a fourth round. We have 20 minutes left, and a fourth round would take us to 25 minutes, so I ask the committee whether they mind if I change the timing to four, four, two, two, four and four minutes, and we can have a round. Is that good?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Philip Lawrence for the CPC, you have four minutes, please.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Help me understand. I'm sorry. Can you explain that one more time, Chair?