Canadian Heritage Committee on May 23rd, 2024

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Good afternoon, everyone. I will call the meeting to order.

We are resuming meeting number 121 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, which was suspended on Thursday, May 23.

Before I begin, I would like to ask all members and other in-person participants to consult the cards in front of you for the guidelines to prevent audio feedback incidents. Take note of the following preventive measures in place to protect the health and safety of all participants, including our interpreters. Again, use only the black earpieces. Keep your earpiece away from all microphones, if you can, at all times. When you are not using your earpiece, please place it face down on the sticker in front of you. Thank you for your co-operation if you do that.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format.

We are resuming meeting 121. Because the meeting was suspended during clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-316, the committee would resume debate where it left off; however, the minister is in front of us here and available for the main estimates for 2024-2025 during the first hour. I am going to propose that we have the minister here for the first hour, and then we'll continue the second hour, if we can, on Bill C-316.

I would like now to welcome our witnesses.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Mr. Chair, I don't believe that's the understanding. I believe that we have the officials coming for the second hour.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

No, we've always had the minister for the first hour.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

That's correct, and we have the officials for the second hour.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Yes.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I understood that you said Bill C-316 for the second hour.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

No, I proposed the minister, who agreed to come for the first hour weeks ago and is here now for the first hour. We also have two people from the Canadian Heritage Department.

We'll go into Bill C-316 for the second hour. We'll have with us Blair and Flavie for that second hour.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

May I say something, Mr. Chair?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

We do have the minister.

Mr. Champoux, go ahead.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Chair, from what my colleague Mr. Noormohamed said, I gather there is confusion as to the agenda for the second hour. I see what his concern is.

It is in fact urgent that we focus on Bill C‑316. We are at clause-by-clause consideration and we have to complete that because we have other things to tackle before the end of the parliamentary session.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I have a point of order. I'm not getting any translation. I apologize for interrupting you.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Coteau, thank you for mentioning that.

Madam Clerk, shall we conduct a test to make sure everyone can understand the interpreters?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

It should be good now.

Go ahead, Mr. Champoux, please.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Coteau, please let us know if it isn't working.

What I am proposing, Mr. Chair, is that we spend the first hour with the minister, as you suggested. If we still have questions for the deputy minister and her officials in the second hour, we can make a decision then.

I propose that we focus on Bill C‑316, if everyone is in agreement. I will nonetheless go along with the majority once the first hour with the minister is over.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Mr. Chair, on this point, I want to just make sure that we all have the same understanding. As I understood it, the calendar was set that the minister would appear for the first hour on the main estimates and officials would appear on the second hour on the main estimates. That was the understanding. I think that was the schedule. I think we need to be very, very clear. If we want to make a change, that's up for discussion in the committee, but that was indeed what the discussion was.

I'm not saying I'm opposed to it. I just want to be very clear on what the calendar was and to ensure that we are doing what we said we were going to do. We might end up in a situation, after the minister is done in the first hour, where people say that we didn't have time with the officials to answer questions about main estimates because we decided to go to something else.

We've had a lot of this going back and forth in the committee. I just want to make sure that we're crystal clear about what we're doing and that everybody's on board with what we're doing before we go down the path.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

We have the officials with the minister. Then we'll go to Bill C-316 for the second hour.

Are we all fine with that?

I think what Mr. Noormohamed was referring to was that we had two hours set aside for the main estimates, the first hour with the minister and these officials, and then the second hour, and you were thinking of just the officials for that.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I believe that was our understanding.

If I recall, and I defer to colleagues, the request was for the minister to appear for the hour and for officials to be there on the matter of the main estimates for the second hour.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Mrs. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

If I may, I think some of the confusion that we're facing is the fact that the last meeting was suspended, so I think it's caused some confusion as to where exactly we pick up.

Of course, knowing that the minister is here, the desire is to have her for an hour, and then, I think, but I don't really know, that the intent was then to respect the original agenda of this meeting by going back to Bill C-316.

At the end of the day, if we want to hear from the minister for the first hour and the officials for the second hour, I think Conservatives agree to that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Okay, Mr. Serré, your hand is up.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am under the same impression—because I've reserved also to be here on Tuesday of next week to do Bill C-316—that today would be the minister and officials, as agreed upon, for the two hours, which we normally do on pretty much every committee. We have the minister for the first hour and the officials for the second hour. Then, on Tuesday, we would do Bill C-316. Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Mr. Champoux.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Chair, it was in principle meeting number 121 that was suspended. If we want to move on to another agenda, meeting number 121 has to be adjourned to move on to the agenda for the next meeting.

I think what has been suggested is more of a friendly agreement to reverse the order of things by spending the first hour with the minister and then continuing our work on Bill C‑316 thereafter, with or without the departmental officials. The committee will then have to make that decision.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

We came here today for the first hour with the minister and the officials. I thought for the second hour we were going to do Bill C-316, but if that's not the case and we're going to move ahead with the second hour from heritage officials on main estimates, I'm open to that.

What is the will of the committee here today?

Ms. Damoff, welcome to the committee.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you. I think the majority of the committee wants to hear from officials, from what I've heard. I worry that we spend a lot of time talking about this and lose time with the minister.