Evidence of meeting #126 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was crtc.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Scott Shortliffe  Executive Director, Broadcasting, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Scott Hutton  Chief of Consumer, Research and Communications, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Rachelle Frenette  Legal Counsel, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Manon Henrie-Cadieux  Director, Strategy and government relations, Fédération culturelle canadienne-française
Serge Quinty  Director of Communications, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada
Liane Roy  President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada

5:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Broadcasting, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Scott Shortliffe

Absolutely.

We launched a process to co-develop an indigenous broadcasting policy. We did a first stage preCOVID. Then, with COVID, we unfortunately had to stop. Currently, we are soliciting interventions from indigenous people. It's going to be a bit of a long process, because we want to co-develop. We don't want it to be coming just from the CRTC. We want to work with indigenous audiences and creators across Canada and help them define what indigenous content is and what is relevant to their communities.

I'll throw this in, because we're short on time: We also created an indigenous relations unit, which reports to Mr. Hutton. It is actively creating links with indigenous communities on both the broadcasting and telecom fronts. It will serve us well in the years to come.

I'll also just say, in this somewhat public forum, that we are hoping indigenous people will participate more. We know we have to do more outreach. We know it can be difficult to go in front of a quasi-judicial tribunal, as we frequently call ourselves. We need to do more with indigenous people and involve them in creating policies, because we are reflecting their nations and realities as well as a broader Canadian reality. This is something we are very much committed to as a commission.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Okay. Thank you.

Now I'm going to the second round. I'm going to make a truncated round of that. It's going to be 2.5 and 2.5 for a total five minutes. We're not going to the second piece of the second round, because we have to move on.

We'll go to Mrs. Thomas for the Conservatives.

You have five minutes, Rachael.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Thank you very much.

A very quick question I have for you is this: The bill uses the word “consult”. If this bill were to go through, how would the CRTC define “consult”? How would you know, in fact, that you have done so?

5:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Broadcasting, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Scott Shortliffe

Since the bill hasn't passed, we haven't turned our minds to exactly how we would implement it. We would, of course, need to see the final version of the bill.

What I can say is that we try to interpret bills in the spirit in which Parliament passes them. We would take this as being meaningful consultation. We would need to reach out to the Province of Quebec and make sure they have the opportunity to intervene in our processes.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Sure.

One thing that is continually happening at this table is a lot of talk about consulting with Quebec. However, you'll note that Bill C-354 also requires you to consult with the governments of other provinces.

Is that correct?

5:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Broadcasting, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Scott Shortliffe

Yes, absolutely. That is an element we have to look into.

We're very aware of the status of official-language minority communities across Canada. We are trying to do more with them—our annual meeting with them has now become a three-times-a-year meeting. We would absolutely respect the bill and reach out to every province to discuss the status of their official-language minority communities.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Great.

You are here, of course, as representatives of the CRTC. You're responsible for regulating radio, television and, under Bill C-11, the Internet. You've already stated that's a pretty big job.

There are, of course, many anxious players in the field who are looking for a definition of CanCon. It was defined in the 1970s. It's quite antiquated. It was created for radio and broadcast television. The players who need this definition are making business decisions day in and day out. They've been told to sit tight—that there are other regulatory decisions being made first.

When can they expect an updated definition of CanCon?

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Broadcasting, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Scott Shortliffe

We're working on several steps. We're looking at a hearing early next year, but so far this year we've done engagement sessions with members of the industry in cities across Canada. We had over 300 participants in that. That gave us a good view of what members of the industry think. That includes, by the way, streamers: It was not just with traditional Canadian broadcasters. We're working now on a report on that. We're also trying to stand up...so public opinion research—

June 18th, 2024 / 5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

I'm sorry. I'll just bring you back to my question here, because you're getting off-topic. I'm just asking, when can stakeholders expect a definition of CanCon?

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Broadcasting, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

At what point in 2025 is that?

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Broadcasting, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Scott Shortliffe

I'm unable to give you a precise point yet, but we're trying to move it up as fast as possible.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Do you think it might be spring 2025?

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Broadcasting, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Scott Shortliffe

I really can't give you a precise estimate at this time. I'm sorry.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Why is the definition of CanCon not given priority? It seems like that should have been the thing to lead with.

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Broadcasting, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Scott Shortliffe

The commission made a decision to start with contributions to the system. We see CanCon as a priority. I'll say that one element of CanCon we need to do is engage Canadians, not just the industry, on the definition of CanCon, and that does take some time. However, we realize that this is something important that we need to get right, and that will take some time.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

One thing that streamers are now stuck with, of course, is paying a 5% tax. It's going to go into a fund that is going to pay for CanCon, but they don't actually know what CanCon is. Don't you think that's a little backwards?

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Broadcasting, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Scott Shortliffe

Well, they're being asked to make a contribution. Obviously, taxes are collected by revenue. We actually gave them the flexibility, saying, “If you spend on the existing definitions of CanCon”—there is an existing definition—“instead of contributing to a fund, you can spend directly.” Our objective here is to create more Canadian content. It's not necessarily to support a fund. We gave them that flexibility.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

You just used the definition of Canadian content. You actually haven't updated it for them yet, but you told them that's what the money is for.

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Broadcasting, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Scott Shortliffe

There is an existing definition, which we have said we are in the process of updating. They can use the existing definition for direct spending currently.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Just to be really clear here, you just issued some word salad to basically say they can still sit tight, but they'll be forced to pay this 5% tax towards something, and they actually don't even know what it is because it's not yet defined, according to the definition that will be coming in 2025. You're asking them to pay a new tax towards an antiquated definition.

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Broadcasting, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Scott Shortliffe

I would say that we asked them to contribute to the Canadian broadcasting system, as the bill passed by Parliament requires us to do. They are doing it in many different ways. They have flexibility in how they're doing it. We will continue to update our—

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Mr. Shortliffe, I'm going to cut you off there, because I do need to move a motion, but thank you very much for giving it your best shot.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

You have 30 seconds.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

I just gave notice that I'm moving a motion, which means the clock stops. I am moving a motion. “Given the amount....”

I'm sorry, Chair, but I just said that I'm moving a motion.