Evidence of meeting #132 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bonuses.
A recording is available from Parliament.
October 21st, 2024 / 11:15 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
As I've said, I consider that to be a personal matter. I believe I'm protected by the Privacy Act in that regard.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
Ms. Tait, taxpayers pay your salary, as they do for all of us. You can google an MP's salary and you can google the Prime Minister's salary, but here we are discussing $18 million paid out to bonuses, with $3 million paid out to executives.
Madam Tait, your own documents show that there are 631 managers at CBC and that 43, I believe it is, are executives. You're defending the average bonus paid out to executives at your organization, which is more than most Canadians make in a year, and you're claiming that it's confidential.
Madam Chair, through you, I would suggest it is unbelievable that Ms. Tait would come before this committee after a very specific motion outlining that answers are demanded when it comes to the compensation received by a public broadcaster. These are taxpayers' dollars that are paying for this organization.
Again, Ms. Tait, I will emphasize and ask: At the conclusion of your term, whether it's for previous fiscal years' bonuses or so-called performance pay, or the conclusion of a severance package, will you refuse those out of respect for the taxpayers who have paid for you to have this role over the last number of years?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
I believe I've answered the question.
For the record, I would like to correct some of the errors that the member has articulated.
One is that the $18 million in performance pay is not dollars that aren't agreed upon well in advance of the end of the fiscal year. We have a rigorous process in place, a process that has been in place for 20 years, Madam Chair. It's a process that is similar to that of other Crown corporations, other government agencies and most private companies. It's a process that is guided by third party consultants, experts who advise us on what we should be paying our executives and our managers.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
I'm sorry, Mr. Kurek. Your time is up.
We'll move on to the second questioner. For the Liberal Party, we have Michael Coteau.
Michael, you have six minutes, please.
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Good morning. Thank you for being here.
I agree with you that CBC is a trusted voice for Canadians. The majority of Canadians support the CBC. It's a very popular broadcaster. I've said this before, you know: I'm a big supporter of the CBC. I think it serves the public good.
In addition to that, in the day of misinformation and disinformation, we need a good public broadcaster that can get out there and really deliver information that's relevant to Canadians.
I think, Mr. Goldbloom, you said that it is a trusted backbone of Canadian culture, or one of you said that, but I think it is absolutely true.
However, what has brought us here today is the $18.4 million that was earmarked for bonuses. Before I get into those questions.... You probably remember some of my questions last time. I asked if you'd go back to the board and reconsider the structure, and I'll get into that.
Before I go any further, can you explain the word “bonus”? Explain the process for us. What are we actually talking about? Are these bonuses, from your perspective?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
No, they are not bonuses; they are what we call performance pay.
With regard to the individuals involved—and we're talking about 1,180 non-unionized employees, managers and executives—a portion of their salary is withheld at the beginning of the year.
Let's say you're making $80,000; maybe $10,000 is withheld.
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
That's in your contract. Your contract says you make $80,000.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
That's correct. A portion is withheld, and a series of KPIs are established at the beginning of the year.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
It's a key performance indicator. Those are linked to the priorities of our strategic plan. For example, driving digital engagement in the regions is a KPI. If we meet the target, those people, those individuals, will receive that portion of their performance pay. Seventy per cent of the performance pay is associated with KPIs, and 30% is associated with the person's individual performance. They have a manager who oversees their objectives on an annual basis as well.
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
I'm going to jump back in for a second.
The last time you were here, I said that considering where Canadians are today, affordability is probably among the top three issues in this country, if not the most important issue. When Canadians see headlines saying that $18.4 million is going out to top executives within an organization, it doesn't sit well with Canadians, and Canadians are on your side.
The $18.4 million that goes out to top executives doesn't sit well with Canadians because they see it as a bonus. The way it sounds is that you go out and you do a good job. If you do a really good job, you get some extra money. No matter which way you slice it, it sounds like a bonus. That's the challenge.
The last time you were here, I asked if you'd go back to the board and think about restructuring your system so that it was a little easier for the average Canadian who is struggling right now to support it, because $18.4 million to executives during hard times is hard for Canadians to process.
Have you gone back to the board and had the discussion? Was there a discussion at the board? Is there any development in that area?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
Yes. With regard to your comments, on June 25 we published a statement from the board of directors. We had a conversation about it, and we agreed that the board would commission an independent study and review of our compensation to ensure that it is in line with standard practice and is fair,
That review has been commissioned and is under way. We will share the recommendations of that review when they become available in the new year.
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Are you going to compare your sector to businesses in general or just broadcasting?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
No.
What we do anyway, on an annual basis.... Just so you understand, our salaries at CBC/Radio-Canada are benchmarked already, with the guidance of compensation experts, at 50% of what would be standard. That means 50% of the range of, let's say, an accounting executive or a programming manager.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
Just to be clear, what we're looking at is Crown corporations, because we operate as a Crown—
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
I need to get my last question in. I'm so sorry to cut you off.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
That's okay.
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
You said something interesting. There is misinformation from Conservatives around viewership and ad revenue. Your viewership maybe on television has dipped a bit, but your digital platforms and other platforms have drastically increased, and your ad revenue overall, when you look at the big picture, has increased.
Can you just give us a 30-second breakdown of where you are as an organization?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
As I said, as Canadians shift from television—linear viewership—they have moved to digital.
As a quick example, The National now reaches almost the same number of people on YouTube, Gem and connected TV as they do on traditional television.
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Then things are looking good overall for CBC when it comes to ad revenue and—
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
I wouldn't overstate that things are looking good, because television ad revenue is down. The entire industry is suffering from what I would call downward pressure because of what's going on in the industry.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you, Mr. Coteau.
Now I go to the Bloc Québécois for six minutes.
Mr. Champoux, go ahead, please.