Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 21st, 2024

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Ms. Tait, when we talk about the role of a public broadcaster, we need to talk about its mandate.

You're not Bell Media. We had Bell Media representatives in front of this committee, and they made it very clear that they were putting profit ahead of local journalism. CBC has an obligation to ensure that regions across our country, including northern Canada, have the voices they deserve.

There's no better example of the damage that's been caused than the deeply cynical treatment of the CBC position here in northern Manitoba. The last time you came to our committee, you mentioned how pleased you were that the CBC had filled the position. What was not known to us was that it had been filled for two months as a secondment. We no longer have anybody here, after years of not having anybody here.

CBC's mandate is to ensure that somebody services CBC North Country. This means that 85,000 people across Manitoba no longer have a voice through the CBC and haven't had one for years.

I contrast that with the leadership of Hubert Lacroix, the previous president, with whom I worked. He listened to our communities. He listened to people saying that we needed a CBC voice, and he made sure that our station stayed open. Under your leadership, we've seen the opposite, with a cynical play at the last committee meeting to say that you had filled the position, when in fact it was only for a couple of months.

My questions are these: What were the bonuses for? Where is the commitment to regional broadcasting when regions like ours are back to being a media desert when it comes to the CBC? What are the bonuses for, exactly, when you're not fulfilling the mandate that the CBC has in terms of regional broadcasting? Why should Canadians believe that the CBC matters when you consistently leave regions like ours in the dark?

[Catherine Tait]

I'm not sure what the question is, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 35 seconds.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

The question is this: What were the bonuses for, if you're failing when it comes to regional broadcasting?

[Catherine Tait]

I would say they are for 95,000 hours of local news audio that were delivered this past year. That's with 7,000 hours per day of video and audio distributed across the country. There are 450 news articles published daily. Fifty per cent of those come from locations like Thompson, Manitoba.

Yes, we filled the position, and the person made the personal decision to move back to live with her partner. That job is up for hire again. It is very difficult for us to find people in those regions, but we're working hard on it.

I'll remind you that during my tenure, we added journalists in Lethbridge, Cranbrook, Nanaimo and Kingston, Ontario.

We have limited resources. We know that for CBC, there are over—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Please wrap up your answer, Ms. Tait. We're over time here.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

The CBC is clearly not trying hard enough.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. That's good.

We're going to the second round. The second round is a five-minute round. We will begin with Monsieur Gourde for the Conservative Party.

You have five minutes please, Monsieur Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Tait and Mr. Goldbloom, thank you.

On a completely different note, Ms. Tait, you took advantage of your personal holiday to participate in the opening ceremonies of the Olympic Games. Thank you for representing Canada.

Was this really during your personal holiday?

[Catherine Tait]

Yes.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

On the other hand, a media outlet reports that you charged $1,000 in accommodation costs for four nights to Canadian taxpayers, in addition to other related expenses of around $6,000.

Why did you invoice Canadians for $6,000, when it was during your personal holiday, as you just said?

[Catherine Tait]

I was in France for my personal holiday but, during the games, I was working for CBC/Radio-Canada. If you look at all the newspapers, you will see very clearly that there was no hotel room in Paris at a more attractive price than that. It was the official hotel for the games, I was there with the other delegates and I took advantage of all the services, for example the bus, to go to the opening, because there were security problems, in particular.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

I understand, Ms. Tait, but you have just said that you were on holiday and then that you were no longer on holiday. It's important to know the true version of events.

[Catherine Tait]

I was on holiday, and that's why I didn't ask CBC/Radio-Canada to pay for my plane ticket. However, when I was at the Olympics, I was working for CBC/Radio-Canada, of course.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

You were there for two weeks, three weeks or a month—we don't know and we don't need to know—and you interrupted your personal vacation to work. Then you asked to be reimbursed for expenses. Okay.

I'll come back to the performance bonuses that CBC/Radio-Canada managers received. Did anyone threaten to quit if they didn't get their bonus? This money was taken from your budget, which is very tight, given the budget cuts you've had to make. You've had to cut back on production, people have lost their jobs and projects have not gone ahead.

These managers are aware that they have hurt people, especially young people, who have lost their jobs. Would some of them have simply agreed not to receive their bonuses this year, in order to allow certain employees to keep their jobs? Did any of them say they'd go work somewhere else if they didn't get their bonus?

[Catherine Tait]

Look, I can't comment on individual decisions. What I can say is that we asked our legal department to assess the risks associated with eliminating bonuses. As Mr. Coteau just said, we understood that this was an obligation we had towards these 1,180 employees.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Ms. Tait, there are Canadians, like us, who feel that management could have said this was a year to cut spending and be careful with taxpayers' money. CBC/Radio-Canada had a budget problem. If management had decided not to give a bonus that year, in order to keep as many jobs as possible and proceed with as many creative endeavours as possible, I'm sure all the managers would have accepted it.

Were there really people who were adamant about this bonus, or had senior management decided to give them the money?

[Catherine Tait]

The elimination of bonuses, i.e., incentive pay, would not solve CBC/Radio-Canada's structural deficit problem. So it wouldn't save jobs, because the following year, the same financial pressures would remain.

I had a good discussion about it with the board of directors and, in my opinion, it was much more important to respect our obligations to these employees to keep this talent, given all the difficult years ahead.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Does the money used to pay the bonuses come from budget cuts, or is it extra money? We know that $42 million was paid to CBC/Radio-Canada the following year.

Did this money come from a supplement paid by the government—

[Catherine Tait]

No, not at all.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

—or does it come from workforce adjustment cuts?

[Catherine Tait]

Managing our budgets is a huge job. We're talking about a budget of $1.8 billion. That's a lot to manage.

So, every year, we set aside part of it for contingent compensation, because these are obligations—

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Ms. Tait, I don't have much time left—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Mr. Gourde, I'm afraid your time is up.

I'll now go to the Liberals for the second round. Mr. Noormohamed, you have five minutes, please.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Ms. Tait and Mr. Goldbloom, for being with us today.

Ms. Tait, can you talk about what the CBC performance pay model was in 2014 versus what it is today in terms of its structure and how it's organized? Is there any difference?