Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 21st, 2024

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I had one more question for Ms. Tait, Mr. Goldbloom or both.

I come back to the question of bonuses.

Was it management's choice, as presented to the board of directors, to grant bonuses? Was CBC/Radio-Canada obliged to give bonuses, or could it have chosen not to? Did you make a recommendation to the board of directors, which endorsed the decision to award bonuses? Could you have chosen not to give bonuses at all?

Was it a choice or an obligation to give these bonuses?

[Michael Goldbloom]

I would say it was the obligation of our organization, in order to fulfill the commitment we made to our non-union employees.

As Ms. Tait said, we set goals and, if employees meet them, they expect to be compensated accordingly.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

So it's a moral obligation. In the regulations, there is nothing anywhere that obliges the board of directors to give bonuses.

[Michael Goldbloom]

That is debatable.

Some lawyers will say that, indeed, we have this legal obligation, because the conditions have been met. For our part, it was essentially a matter of fulfilling our commitment.

We make commitments to our unionized employees through collective agreements and to our non-unionized employees on the basis of the objectives we set. When they reach their targets, they are compensated accordingly.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you.

I will yield my remaining time to Mr. Waugh.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 30 seconds, Mr. Waugh.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm worried about the CBC.

Mr. Goldbloom, I think your CEO was blindsided by the decline of trust in the CBC. In fact, she wrote a defensive editorial last year in the Toronto Star. I think she's been blindsided by the gathering of momentum that I read to defund the CBC, and now you're going to go to the government on behalf of the board of CBC and give Ms. Tait two and a half years of bonus. How can you do this?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry that I cannot have an answer. I told everyone we have two minutes, and we've now gone over two minutes on this round.

I will go to the Liberals, to Mr. Noormohamed, for two minutes, please.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Given that we've had, I think, an exhaustive discussion today with Madam Tait and Mr. Goldbloom, there are a couple of key things that are worth putting on the record.

The first is that Ms. Tait noted that under the Conservatives, the per capita bonuses paid to CBC executives on an inflationary basis actually were higher under the Harper government than they are now, despite the misinformation that is now already being spread by some Conservative-leaning channels. I think it's important for us to remember that.

The other thing that's important to note is that the Harper government also used similar tactics to retain employees. By the way, I think that's an important thing. I think it's important for us to pay people what they are worth so that they can do good work on behalf of Canadians. I think Canadians would respect that good work is paid fairly.

With that, Madam Chair, I'd like to now move a motion reflecting the conversation that we've had today. The motion is as follows:

Given that more than 11 million Canadians tuned in to CBC/Radio-Canada’s coverage of the Paris 2024 Paralympic Games;

Given that the national public broadcaster offered the most coverage in Canada of a Paralympic Games to date;

Given that CBC offers a coverage of sports events that are important to Canadians and our Canadian identity, such as the Arctic Winter Games, the North American Indigenous Games and the Commonwealth Games;

And given that under previous Conservative governments, no 2012 Summer Paralympics sport events were shown live on television in Canada despite record international media coverage in other countries;

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of no less than four meetings of CBC/Radio-Canada's coverage of amateur sport, with particular attention to how the public broadcaster provides a Canadian perspective on Canadian stories, highlights sporting events that would otherwise receive less coverage, unites our country and helps advance the goals of the Olympic and Paralympic movements.

I will circulate that, Madam Chair, in both English and French, if that has not already been done.

I think this is an important motion, given the questions we heard that reflect the importance of making sure that Canadians can see sporting events and others that may not be “popular” on some of the other channels but that clearly, in the eyes of Canadians, are not only incredibly popular but incredibly powerful and that convey an incredible sense of paralympic athletes' accomplishments across this country from coast to coast to coast.

This is something that I think we should be extremely proud of, and I think we need to really examine the consequences and the implications of this very important coverage.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Noormohamed, we will not entertain debate on this motion because we didn't get 48 hours' notice. This is not pertaining to compensation; it's pertaining to the Olympic Games and the Paralympic Games, which is a totally different issue. However, we will have this motion on notice to be debated if the committee so wishes at the next meeting, or if you want to bring it back at the next meeting.

I want to go to Mr. Champoux for two minutes, please.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thought we were going to debate the motion, because I thought it fit, perhaps a little broadly, a little loosely, into today's topic since it touches on CBC/Radio-Canada's mandate. I would have been delighted to discuss this very interesting motion. Perhaps another time, if your decision stands.

Ms. Tait, Mr. Goldbloom, thank you again for coming today.

Having to conclude in two minutes is not a lot, but what I want to point out today, above and beyond everything that can be criticized about the way CBC/Radio-Canada has handled the budget reduction announcements, particularly over the past year and a half, among other things, and the awarding of performance bonuses—which was highly questionable in the context—is that we need to remember the bigger picture, not just of CBC/Radio-Canada, but of the state of the news media in Canada and around the world. Rather than disunite and adhere to populist positions, we should instead face this major problem in an adult way, responsibly and, above all, urgently.

I am extremely worried when I hear truths and words manipulated to respond to popular grumbling, not always justified, against the public broadcaster. What I noticed today, in connection with the questions from the Conservative colleagues, is that all the questions they put to you were answered in a way that flatly defeated their arguments and rhetoric.

I hope this will have a big impact and resonate.

Yes, the question of remuneration needs to be challenged. Yes, we need to find new ways to make the Quebec and Canadian public understand, first, the importance of a healthy public broadcaster, but also the importance of adequately remunerating artisans, journalists and executives, in order to attract quality people if we want to have a quality broadcaster.

Thank you again for coming. Ms. Tait, this may be the last opportunity we have to meet during this mandate. It hasn't always been easy, but you've always weathered the storm. You've always answered questions as thoroughly as possible. When you didn't have the answers, you always sent us full answers, as you had promised. Everyone can testify to your thoroughness, even if we may have differences of opinion on your overall performance as president and CEO of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

That said, I truly hope that we will succeed in ensuring that CBC/Radio-Canada remains a healthy, rigorous public broadcaster, that it will have an important role to play and that it will play it to counter this rise in disinformation and populism in our media, which call themselves news media these days.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Mr. Champoux.

Now I'm going to Ms. Ashton for two minutes. I'm sorry, Ms. Tait.

[Catherine Tait]

Am I allowed to respond to that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We are short on time, but go ahead with a quick response of 30 seconds.

[Catherine Tait]

I just want to thank the member from the Bloc. It has not been easy, especially in the face of extreme misinformation.

I learned just minutes ago that right now on Twitter, there are some members claiming that I charged taxpayers for a personal trip to Paris. I want to say this while you're all in this room: I made it very clear why I, as CEO, was in Paris at the Olympic Games—one of the most important events—where Canada performed spectacularly.

I want to say how much I appreciate the comments of the député about my willingness to be honest and frank in presenting the facts at this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Tait.

I might note that you also said you paid for the trip to Paris on your own dime, so thank you very much.

[Jamil Jivani, Conservative, Durham, ON]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

She paid for her trip. I'm sorry. We are not debating this issue, Mr. Jivani.

Go ahead, Ms. Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Well, speaking of the Olympics this summer, we were so proud of our Canadian athletes and their successes.

However, Canadians are also very concerned by the spying scandal that engulfed our women's soccer team, who gave it their all in spite of the officials who embroiled them in scandal and damaged Canada's reputation when it comes to soccer and, frankly, the ethics of sport on the world stage. Canada Soccer committed to giving us answers weeks or even months ago. We haven't heard anything. Canadians have a lot of questions. Officials of the Canadian soccer team continue to delay. We've heard little from the government and officials as to what's going on—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry, Ms. Ashton; this is not in order. This is not what we're discussing right now. We're discussing compensation for the CBC.

If you have a statement to share—

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Chair, this is my speaking time. I have the right to say what I'd like to say during my speaking time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

It is not the order of the day, but go ahead.

You had two minutes. You have one minute left.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

That is why I would like to put forward the following motion that we submitted last week. It is an updated version of a previous motion we put forward:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of no less than six hours to study the role of officials associated to the Canadian women’s soccer team and Canada Soccer in the use of drones for spying during the Paris Olympics or in previous competitions, which has damaged Canada’s reputation and punished the players for something they had no part in, and that the committee summon, pursuant to Standing Order 108(1)(a), Bev Priestman, Jasmine Mander, Joseph Lombardi and John Herdman to appear before the committee for no less than two hours and before December 11, 2024, in addition to the chief executive officer and representatives of Soccer Canada and representatives of FIFA, and past or present Team Canada soccer players; and that the committee report its findings and recommendations to the House; and that pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request that the government table a comprehensive response to the report.

I present this in my right as a member of Parliament in this committee. This is an almost identical version of a previous motion that we submitted. The exception is the change to the date.

Canadians have questions that haven't been answered by the Minister of Heritage and the Minister of Sport. I think most importantly, it's important for parliamentarians, on behalf of Canadians, to seek some accountability and ensure that we are truly supporting our athletes, especially as we gear up for co-hosting the World Cup in 2026.

I don't think this should take much more attention than it has. I hope we can move to a vote and move forward on something that Canadians really care about.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

I would like to take the opportunity before we vote on your motion to thank Mr. Goldbloom and Ms. Tait for coming here today and answering tough questions.

I think I could repeat what Mr. Champoux said, and he's absolutely right. You've always been frank and above board and you have answered difficult questions and sent us information if you didn't have it on hand. Thank you for coming. I appreciate your time.

I'm going to now say that the witnesses may leave. Thank you very much.

The committee will move to Ms. Ashton's motion. I have been trying to get a couple of budgets for these meetings voted on, and it seems that we're not going to be able to do that.

I'd like to put Ms. Ashton's motion on the table. Does anyone wish to discuss it?

I see no hands up for discussion.

I'm going to call a vote. Do you want a recorded vote, Ms. Ashton?

You do.

Would the clerk please move to a recorded vote? Thank you.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

I'm going to now quickly ask the committee to bear with me just for a minute to discuss the two budgets that I have for you.

One is a budget for the study of Canada's anti-racism strategy. The amount is $2,500. Is someone moving to accept this budget?

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

How much is it for?