Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 21st, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I call the meeting to order.

I want to welcome you to meeting number 132 of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Before I begin, there are some housekeeping items.

For instance, I want all of you to read the guidelines that are written on the cards that are on the table. They are there to help us to not get feedback, which creates a problem for interpreters. You need to know where to put your phone, etc., so that it's not going to feedback.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. I want to let you know some points that we use to run the committee.

Everything you do is through the chair.

You cannot take photographs of what's going on here. The meeting is going to be online later on for you to look at.

If you want to speak, raise your hand, or if you're attending virtually, put up the “raise hand” signal, and the clerk and I will try to make sure that we see you in the same order that you've put up your hand. Sometimes we miss you, but there you go. We're going to try hard to do this.

Again, remember that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

We will give the speaker a certain period of time, a moderate amount of time, to speak.

Ms. Tait, I will give you a 30-second shout-out when you have to wrap it up.

For everyone else, it's the same thing. I'll give you a 30-second shout-out so that you know to wrap up what you're doing. Then we will get to the question-and-answer period.

Welcome, Ms. Tait.

I'm seeing you a lot at this committee now. We've become quite familiar with you. I welcome you.

You know all the rules. You've been here before.

I wanted to say that you have five minutes to present. You can go ahead, and after that we will go to the question-and-answer period. I'll give you that 30-second shout-out.

Are you ready to begin?

Thank you.

[Catherine Tait, President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation]

I should say that I'm here with the chair of the board of directors of CBC/Radio-Canada, Michael Goldbloom, who will be joining me in opening remarks.

Madam Chair, members of the committee, we are honoured to represent Canada's public broadcaster, an organization that Canadians depend upon to celebrate Canadian culture, and to ensure access to reliable and accurate news and information.

I would also remind the committee that CBC/Radio-Canada operates at arm's length from government, not just in its editorial decisions but also in its financial and operational decisions. This independence is critical to the trust that Canadians place in us.

We welcome discussions about public broadcasting and we believe such discussions should be based on facts. The document we have shared with you sets out the facts about compensation at CBC/Radio-Canada. We hope these facts can help guide our conversation today.

We would like to use our time to talk about the challenges facing the media industry in Canada and why a strong public broadcaster is more important than ever.

[Michael Goldbloom, Chair of the Board, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation]

The challenge is clear; The ongoing crisis in Canadian media is undermining Canadians’ ability to keep informed. Fewer sources of Canadian news means a growing influence of foreign-owned social media, which frequently disseminate disinformation and conspiracy theories.

Earlier this year, Policy Horizons Canada identified the key disruptions facing Canada. Number one is that people will not be able to tell what is true and what is not. How will we as a society solve the big challenges that we face—affordability, housing, climate change, health issues—if Canadians cannot tell what is true?

In this period of enormous disruption in Canada's media landscape, I believe Canada needs its public broadcaster more than ever. CBC/Radio-Canada provides trusted news and information backed by professional journalists, high journalistic standards, transparency and accountability. Our local presence in 60 communities in every region of the country allows Canadians to remain connected to each other and to the country.

According to Léger's Reputation 2024 survey, CBC/Radio-Canada is the most admired media company in the country. It is also Canada's most trusted news network according to Pollara's 2024 Trust in Media study.

[Catherine Tait]

The public broadcaster is also the backbone of Canadian culture. Our budget contributes to an information and creative industry that generates $73 billion in the Canadian economy every year and provides jobs for 630,000 Canadians.

Let's not forget the thousands of amateur athletes who would remain unknown here at home and on the world stage if not for the public broadcaster's commitment to showcasing their talent. What better example is there of this than this summer's Olympics and Paralympics in Paris? Twenty-seven million Canadians—that's seven in 10—came to CBC/Radio-Canada to celebrate Canada's athletes. The Olympics gave the lift that all Canadians needed. It was a truly nation-building event.

In other countries, access to Olympic coverage increasingly means paying for it, and coverage is limited to 17 days every other year, but not here in Canada. CBC/Radio-Canada's commitment is to year-round coverage of amateur athletes and to gender parity in all sports.

Despite the challenges, CBC/Radio-Canada continues to meet the changing needs of Canadians. Some 21 million Canadians now depend on our digital services each month for news. Millions are streaming video and audio in English and French across our platforms, and that's in addition to our award-winning radio and television services.

We are serving Canadians. That service is something worth celebrating and, certainly, worth fighting for.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. Oh, my goodness; you have done very well, Ms. Tait.

I'm sorry. This is my fault, guys. I forgot to introduce Michael Goldbloom, who is the chair of the board of the CBC. He's here to answer any board-related questions you may have. We talked about it at the last meeting.

We will begin with the questions session.

I will begin with Mr. Kurek for six minutes, please.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Goldbloom and Ms. Tait, for joining us here today.

Ms. Tait, you were asked to appear before this committee with very specific parameters in the motion surrounding bonuses, or performance pay, as it was referred to by your organization.

In the fiscal year covering 2022-23, Ms. Tait, did you receive a bonus?

[Catherine Tait]

No.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you for that. I appreciate your being direct on that.

It is my understanding that there is not a deadline when it comes to a bonus being awarded outside of a fiscal year. Is that your understanding as well?

[Catherine Tait]

Are you talking about compensation for the CEO in your question, or specifically about the entire non-unionized employee group?

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

It's specifically related to your compensation.

[Catherine Tait]

As you know, the CEO is compensated—

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

On a point of order, Madam Chair, we can't hear Mr. Kurek's audio. He's cutting in and out.

If you repeat the question, maybe we can find out what's happening.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We would start from scratch. I think we should try to rectify what's happening.

The people on the virtual end are telling us they cannot hear Mr. Kurek's question. He's cutting in and out. That means we may not be able to hear Ms. Tait's answer either.

Can we check that out, please?

I'm going to suspend the meeting while that's happening.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I call the meeting back to order.

We will begin again with Mr. Kurek.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Tait and Mr. Goldbloom, for joining us here today.

Ms. Tait, again, I would ask whether you received a bonus for the fiscal year 2022-23.

[Catherine Tait]

No, I did not.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you, Ms. Tait.

Mr. Goldbloom, did the board request that the government give Ms. Tait a bonus?

[Michael Goldbloom]

The board provides its assessment of the CEO's performance, and we share that with the government. It's for the government to decide whether or not it pays performance pay.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Did the board give the assessment to the government that Ms. Tait should receive a bonus?

[Michael Goldbloom]

I think the specifics of that recommendation are confidential, but I would say that the board has been very supportive of Ms. Tait's performance.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Goldbloom.

Ms. Tait, I would ask again. It's my understanding that your term will be coming to a close. I believe January 3 is the end of that.

In regard to performance pay bonuses and a severance package, we are in a situation in which Canadians are struggling. The cost of living is making it unaffordable for so many Canadians to afford the essentials. When you look at the bonuses of $18 million awarded across the CBC, including bonuses averaging tens of thousands of dollars to executives in the organization, your metrics certainly don't seem to add up with the talking points that are provided. As you conclude your tenure at CBC, can you commit today that you will not take a severance package or bonuses for the last two fiscal years?

[Catherine Tait]

You've made several points in that question.

What I would say first of all is that if we're talking about 2022-23, the results of that year are public. For 2023-24, all of the key performance indicators set out and approved by the board were achieved, if not exceeded.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

With respect, Ms. Tait, I did ask specifically about your compensation.

With the range of compensation that is provided, you make more than the prime minister of this country. That's your compensation. To get a bonus on top of that, at a time when viewership is down and ad revenue for your organization is down....

I asked specifically about whether or not you would refuse to take a severance package at the conclusion of your term as CEO.

[Catherine Tait]

I believe Canadians would expect that the corporation would honour its commitments to its non-unionized employees as it would to its unionized employees.

I would like to correct the record. Whereas total ad revenues are down, digital ad revenues are up. At the beginning of my tenure, digital revenue was at about $38 million; this last year it clocked in at about $100 million.

I think it's important that we have accurate descriptors of what's going on at CBC/Radio Canada.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Ms. Tait, you said that the information is confidential, but that just doesn't work for Canadians. Canadians look at $18 million awarded in bonuses and the fact that you just spent $1,000 a night for a hotel room in Paris during the Olympics. As you come to the conclusion of your term, you are being paid more than the prime minister of this country and you refuse today to rule out that you will receive either bonuses—so-called performance pay—or a severance package at the conclusion of your term. Saying that it's confidential doesn't cut it for Canadians. It doesn't cut it for parliamentary oversight.

Again I ask you: Will you specifically today share with this committee whether or not you will refuse a severance package or bonus at the conclusion of your term as president and CEO of CBC?