Evidence of meeting #132 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bonuses.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Jamil Jivani Conservative Durham, ON
When the average Canadian hears that you're charging thousands of dollars to the taxpayer and you are deciding when your personal time ends and your billable time begins, it gets to a broader concern and the point about bonuses that many of our colleagues have made today about whether you have respect for the taxpayer.
Can you see why that would be concerning to the average Canadian?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
I do not make those decisions alone. I always check in with my chair and I behave in a responsible fashion.
Conservative
Jamil Jivani Conservative Durham, ON
I'd like to ask if you agree with a statement that's been attributed to you. You said, “the ‘defund’ narrative has picked up momentum—especially as it relates to CBC television.”
Did that come from you?
Conservative
Jamil Jivani Conservative Durham, ON
Okay. That was reported last week by the National Post from an email it obtained that you wrote, I believe, in January 2024. Is that correct?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
I presume so, yes.
Conservative
Jamil Jivani Conservative Durham, ON
When you look at the concerns about your expenses—which I think are legitimate concerns about when your personal vacation time ends and your billable time begins—and the concerns about news stories related to your bonuses that are going out and bonuses you or executives may receive—the $18 million we've been talking about today—do you think any of that might contribute to what you have observed as a growing movement to defund the CBC?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
I absolutely do not.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
Having experienced now a third appearance at this committee, I would say there is a clear effort on the part of members of this committee to vilify and discredit me and to discredit the organization.
Not one question has been asked about the accomplishments of the public broadcaster over the last six years and how we have served Canadians.
Conservative
Jamil Jivani Conservative Durham, ON
I think our Liberal colleagues have asked you some of those questions, so that's not a fair representation of your time here today.
Let's go back to something that our colleague Mr. Coteau asked you earlier.
You referred to key performance indicators. Would the idea that a growing movement in our country that would like to defund your organization be weighed into an analysis of key performance indicators in determining whether the discretionary portions of the bonuses...? You've acknowledged that there is a percentage that is discretionary and not contractually obligated.
You might consider, “Hmm, if people don't like what we're doing, if people don't trust us and if people would like the government to take money away from our bloated organization, maybe we shouldn't be spending more of their money than we have to.” Could that not cross your mind in analyzing the KPIs?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
We do not take into consideration political winds or influences in determining our business metrics.
Conservative
Jamil Jivani Conservative Durham, ON
You would call it a political reaction for the average Canadian to hear that you're doling out $18 million in bonuses and that you're billing the taxpayer for your time in Paris while on a personal vacation? Is it a political concern for the average Canadian to have an interest in that, based purely on the fact that they are giving you their hard-earned money through taxes?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at on this question.
Conservative
Jamil Jivani Conservative Durham, ON
You're trying to marginalize legitimate concerns about abuse of taxpayer dollars and you're saying that any accountability that we are trying to introduce here as parliamentarians is purely political. What I'm saying is that the big, beautiful, growing movement to defund the CBC is not a purely political movement but a matter of taxpayer accountability. Can you not acknowledge that?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
I will not—
Madam Chair, I will not be accused of abusing taxpayer dollars. I'm sorry; for the record, we have managed our budget extremely carefully. We were facing a $125-million—
Conservative
Liberal
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
We were facing a $125 million deficit. We managed as carefully as we could and we respected our obligations to over 1,180 employees. I believe Canadians will understand.
By the way, 73% of Canadians still consider us the most trusted source of news. Seventy-nine per cent of Canadians say they believe that the CBC should be in the future of this country.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
I think we've gone over time, Mr. Jivani. Thank you very much.
I'm now going to go to the Liberals.
Go ahead, Ms. Dhillon, for five minutes, please.
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
I have a point of order.
Can I ask a quick question? Is there an intermission in between, or are we going two hours straight? Is it just two straight hours?