Canadian Heritage Committee on May 30th, 2022

[Scott Benzie]

In theory, I agree with you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 33 seconds.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Okay, good. We agree.

Thank you very much. I'm done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

We're going to move to Mr. Champoux for two and a half minutes, please.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you Madam Chair.

I'm going to leave Mr. Benzie alone for a few minutes, although I am really tempted to follow up on a few points.

I wanted to talk to Ms. Noble or Ms. Blanchette about paragraph 3(1)(f) of the Broadcasting Act, which ACTRA is proposing to amend in an extremely significant way.

Ms. Noble, you had to stop before you'd finished your presentation, and I'd like to give you the opportunity to say a little bit more about that.

[Eleanor Noble]

Yes, thank you.

We've included a proposal to amend proposed paragraph 3(1)(f) of the bill, which acknowledges the essential role for Canadian creators and retains the concept of the nature of the undertaking to recognize that all online services will be contributing to the creation of Canadian content.

Lisa, do you want to add any more to that?

[Lisa Blanchette]

Sure.

We think that the online streaming act could actually be game-changing for the future of Canadian content creation. It's a major opportunity for performers, in terms of jobs and exposure.

Amending proposed paragraph 3(1)(f) is crucial for us. Our goal is to equalize the regulatory obligations across all broadcasting undertakings delivering similar programming to avoid a cascade effect of traditional broadcasters seeking to lower their obligations to match those of online undertakings.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

So we have to be very straightforward and remain vigilant in this regard. Thank you, Ms. Noble and Ms. Blanchette.

Mr. Benzie, everything suggests that Bill C-11 will be adopted and that you will eventually have to make representations to the CRTC. Among the proposals that the Bloc Québécois will be presenting again this year, there will be the proposal to reintroduce the concept of referral to the Governor in Council.

Is the fact that you will have an additional tool likely to reassure you, if ever the regulations put in place by the CRTC hurt digital creators?

[Scott Benzie]

I'm sorry, Mr. Champoux. I want to give that all due respect.

I don't know. I'm kind of new to all this. I don't know what “Governor in council” means, to be honest.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

It's simply a way to appeal a CRTC decision or regulation if it goes against the interests of a particular group.

In your opinion, once the regulations are adopted by the CRTC, will this tool reassure you?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Perhaps Mr. Benzie can answer that in another round.

I'm sorry, Martin. That's it.

We go to Peter Julian for two and a half minutes, please.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much.

Madam Chair, I wanted to go to Ms. McGuffin to ask two questions.

First off, you've mentioned that the web giants don't contribute as much to community as they should. You're very clearly advocating that C-11 help to level that playing field. I want to ask you about that.

Second is a question I'll direct to you and also to Mr. Benzie. We've heard testimony that OUTtv was excluded from a number of the online streaming platforms. We're having this conversation about gatekeepers, but it seems to me that this is an example of gatekeeping, where a whole community is simply excluded from being present on online streaming platforms.

Does that not indicate that we need to start to step up to provide for that level playing field, so those kinds of exclusions can't occur?

I'll go to you first, Ms. McGuffin.

[Margaret McGuffin]

Thanks for that question.

We really want to make sure that emerging creators and companies that are emerging and growing get the support of FACTOR and Musicaction, which have invested in emerging creators. They may not be the ones you're seeing on TikTok right now, but they may be the ones in five years, so we need to make sure we're building and not just outsourcing our creatives to the international companies.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

On the issue of the exclusion of OUTtv...?

[Margaret McGuffin]

I don't have a comment on that.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Okay.

Mr. Benzie, can I go to you because you have spoken about gatekeepers a number of times. Here's an example of gatekeeping that is taking place with the web giants excluding from online streaming platforms. Does that not worry you when you hear that sworn testimony before committee?

[Scott Benzie]

I agree with Brad. I think on curated platforms, where there is an editorial decision being made like on Roku or Amazon, etc., they are acting as broadcasters and I believe they should be subject to the Broadcasting Act. Brad can upload all the content he wants to YouTube or TikTok or Snapchat or Facebook, because there's nothing stopping him from doing that. There's no gatekeeper.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

You have 11 seconds, Peter. Even you cannot make use of that. Thank you very much.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

That's an important point, Madam Chair. I will use the 11 seconds just to stress the importance of the fact we are seeing gatekeeping taking place now, which I think underscores the importance of the discussion we're having on Bill C‑11.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

I'm now going to go to the Conservative Party and Mr. Uppal for five minutes, please.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

[Technical difficulty—Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Uppal, we cannot hear you.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Aimée Belmore]

Mr. Uppal, we're seeing that your headset is selected and connected, but we're still not getting any sound from you, I'm afraid. Is there a mike connection or something, a button to push somewhere, that might be muting your microphone?

Mr. Uppal, I'm afraid that someone is going to be calling you shortly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Tim, do you mind going after the Liberal member? We have time.

Thanks.

Lisa Hepfner, you have five minutes.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for your testimony today.

I think I would just like to stick to the same idea that we've been talking about, namely, gatekeepers. I'd like to go back to Ms. McGuffin, because you did speak very eloquently in your opening statement about the scare tactics that we're seeing from some of the platforms right now. I'm wondering if you could just expand a little bit on the type of power that we're seeing from platforms, and the gatekeeping that you've seen.