Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2022

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you.

Looking back, you mentioned in your opening comments about the economic impact. I believe it's north of $60 million. What does that look like on the ground? Most of your theatres are in what we might consider smaller rural communities. What does the impact that your theatres and performances have on the communities around them look like on the ground?

[Dr. Alex Mustakas]

A lot of the hospitality sector relies on us—people in restaurants, overnight stays, transportation and so on to get to us. It is a partnership. We basically rely on each other. That's been hard, because we close and they close. It's a problem. It has really affected the arts sector as well. Many of our actors, our musicians and so on also lost their secondary industry as well—the ability to teach privately, to bartend, to serve tables and so on.

Obviously, we have a direct impact. Attendance has a direct impact on tourism and the economy. Where our theatres operate in Ontario, I think the economic impact is over $82 million. That basically stopped overnight.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have two minutes and 11 seconds, John.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll try to make the most of my two minutes and 11 seconds.

Looking forward, one of the comments that you made, Alex, was about destigmatizing getting back to the theatre. I don't want to speak for everyone around this table and on Zoom, but I think we all hope that is possible. You mentioned that you're on draft whatever for the 2022 season. From a federal perspective, what do you need from us as Parliament, as the government, to give you some certainty going forward? What types of programs, announcements or commitments do you need to be able to put on a 2022 season that everyone can be proud of?

[Dr. Alex Mustakas]

All of my colleagues on this call have suggested programs, new programs and to continue programs that are already existing, but I really believe we need messaging. The messaging has to come right from the top to let us know that it will be safe to gather again, because the nature of our business is communal. We need to have consistency, obviously. The fear of planning a season and investing in a season only to be shut down a few months later is really difficult. Messaging is really important to communicate to Canadians.

There's a bit of a disconnect, as you know. Last weekend, some of us who love to watch football saw 80,000-plus spectators without masks, and we think, “Why can't we have somebody in the theatre to watch a play?” The messaging is very important moving forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Mustakas.

Now I go to the second round, to the second questioner, and that is from the Liberal Party, Tim Louis.

You have six minutes, Tim.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for your time and for this very important conversation.

I would like to direct my line of questioning to Mr. Mustakas and let him know how proud so many of us are in our community, in Kitchener-Conestoga and Waterloo region, and obviously beyond, of the success of Drayton theatre, which started with one employee and many volunteers and that shared vision. It's really a jewel for our whole region.

We talked about how much the pandemic affected everyone in every sector, and of course we're here because the live performance sector is really hard hit.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Madam Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, Mrs. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I'm sorry. I know this isn't his fault, and maybe it's just me, but my suspicion is that it's not. The mike is quite static and a bit harmful to the ears. I'm wondering if the interpreters are experiencing the same, or if other members are experiencing the same and that maybe it could be fixed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We will suspend for a second while we get that fixed.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Madam Chair, I did the old “turn it on, turn it off again”. Is that any better?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

We will restart. I will give you five minutes because you're down to 4:45.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you. I will do what I can.

I wanted to thank you again for being here and focus my questions on Mr. Mustakas.

When people see the stage, they see the actors, they see who is there, but we talk about behind the scenes, all those contract workers, the musicians, the designers and more. Can you expand on their numbers percentage-wise and the challenges of keeping them in that sector as we're waiting for things to open up?

[Dr. Alex Mustakas]

Mr. Lewis alluded earlier to how many technicians are involved in productions. They are as important and in some cases even more important than what we see on stage. They make what happens on stage happen.

We're worried about losing some of these skilled technicians to other jobs. It's a little frightful. Myself, thinking about moving into the 2022 summer season, for example, I know already that I've lost a number of technicians. It's going to be devastating to our sector because they come with years of experience and you can't just train people overnight. You can't be a sound designer or a sound technician overnight. It takes years. That's a real fear for all of us, I think.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I appreciate that. Yes. These are people who have trained almost all their lives to be in that profession, and when we talk to them they want nothing more than to get back to work.

You alluded already to the communal nature of live theatre specifically, that one of the issues is how long it takes to plan programming. You don't start these shows...planning ahead you need that longer runway. It takes a long time to prepare for these performances. Again, we don't know the timeline to get back, but you did mention, and already previously talked about it, but I hope you can expand on how we can destigmatize that return to theatre.

You talked about a marketing and PR strategy. What measures would it take to get that confidence back? Like I said, how can we help? Is it funding or straight-up messaging? Would you work with associations or levels of government? What kinds of things can we do to instill that confidence again when the time comes?

[Dr. Alex Mustakas]

I think it's all of the above, Mr. Louis. We all need to work together regarding the messaging. We need support. Frankly, we're frightened to announce a season to only have it shut down again, because it affects a lot of people, a lot of signed licence agreements, payouts and so on. A bit of certainty would certainly help to mitigate the risk. We've been trying to keep operating costs as low as possible, as many of you here have. When will we be able to have more confidence in gathering? That's something that's unfortunately beyond us at the moment. That's what we really need.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I agree.

With the time I have left I want to brag about the great work you've done on next generation performers who haven't had a chance to be on stage for two years. Can you share a bit of information about the Drayton Entertainment youth academy and the effect it's going to have on the next generation, on their mental health and on our communities so all of us can hear about it?

[Dr. Alex Mustakas]

Absolutely. We are under construction of a brand new facility. You talk about philanthropy, and this has come through individuals and corporations who believe in generational change and the future of our industry. We plan to teach not only performing arts, but technical arts as well. As you know, unfortunately, arts programs in the schools are the first to be cut. We're trying to fill a gap for the future.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

That's perfect. Thank you again for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You're right on time. Thank you very much.

Now we have Mr. Champoux from the Bloc for six minutes, please.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for appearing before the committee today, despite the rather short notice. We're very grateful to them.

I would like to pick up a little bit on the opening remarks by Mr. Roy of the RÉMI, from whom we heard little earlier.

Good afternoon, Mr. Roy. I'm glad to see you with us today.

We discussed the same thing in the fall of 2020. Have things improved as a result of the recommendations this committee made to the government?

[Martin Roy]

Good afternoon, sir.

A great deal of work has been done, yes. Some worthwhile measures were announced in the 2021‑22 budget, but they were generally not used properly.

I mentioned to you that the major festivals and events support initiative had some problems. That $200 million is not entirely living up to its promise, and the other $200 million, which includes support for local festivals, among other things, remains inaccessible. So there is an issue. It's been just about one year since this budget was tabled, and the funds are not yet available. I don't understand what's going on.

Of course, the public health issues remain as well. Everyone knows that all the necessary steps are being taken, but I'd also like to make the case for science. Science and the precautionary principle led us to cancel festivals and events in the first years, but now we know that the risks are low outdoors. Again recently, a study by the University of Colorado and Oxford University found that even large outdoor gatherings present no inordinate risk, especially if those gatherings are in provinces that have a vaccine passport calling for three doses, as will be the case in Quebec.

So it's a combination of things. We need to consider both government and public health measures to remove the stigma from arts and entertainment, as my colleague was saying. We know that the risks are low outdoors. The same thing goes for indoors, and we can have indoor shows because patrons wear masks in performance venues. So we have no reason to be completely shut down at this time. We know that in France, in particular, the cultural sector is alive and well, and it is in Belgium too. I don't see why that wouldn't be true here in Canada right now.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Some countries have understood that arts and entertainment is more than an expense, it's an industry that makes money. We're struggling to adopt that mentality.

As you mentioned earlier, and we've often heard it said in discussions with various stakeholders and entertainment industry representatives, everything revolves around predictability. You can't organize a festival in one month or a few weeks. You have to know in advance.

What you're telling me is that, as a result of the committee's recommendations, the government made some beneficial budget announcements, but you still haven't received the money and it's February. You still can't plan for the upcoming season.

Did I understand correctly?