Evidence of meeting #34 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Philippe Méla  Legislative Clerk
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Stephanie Bond
Thomas Owen Ripley  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I call this meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone. I would like to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Welcome to meeting No. 34 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Pursuant to the orders of reference of Thursday, May 12, 2022, the committee is resuming consideration of Bill C-11, an act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other acts.

Pursuant to government motion 16, adopted by the House of Commons on Monday, June 13, 2022, the committee is commencing clause-by-clause consideration of the bill.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, and although most of you are familiar, I would like to suggest, pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021, that members attending in person must wear a mask at all times, except when eating. Per the directive of the Board of Internal Economy on March 10, we will also remember that members who are working virtually from home must mute themselves unless they are going to speak. I'd like to also ask you to make sure that you address everything through the chair.

I will recognize you by name when you put your hand up. The clerk and I will be working in tandem. She tells me what's going on on the floor. Even though I can see it, I cannot really distinguish whose hand is up, so she lets me know whose hand is up. If there's anybody joining virtually—and I notice that Mr. Uppal is virtual—use your “raise hand” signal at the bottom of the screen, so that I can know when you want to say something.

Remember again to plug in your mikes on the floor for interpretation, and for those who are virtual, the interpretation is in the globe icon at the bottom of the screen. That's about it.

Now I want to provide members of the committee with some instructions and a few comments on how the committee will proceed with the clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-11.

As the name indicates, this is an examination of all the clauses in the order in which they appear in the bill. I will call each clause in succession, and each clause is subject to debate and a vote. If there is an amendment to the clause in question, I will recognize the member proposing it, who may explain it. The amendment will then be open for debate. When no further members wish to intervene, the amendment will be voted on.

Amendments will be considered in the order in which they appear in the bill or in the package each member received from the clerk. Members should note that amendments must be submitted in writing to the clerk of the committee. The chair will go slowly to allow members to follow the proceedings properly. Amendments have been given an alphanumeric number to indicate which party submitted them. There is no need for a seconder to move an amendment. Once an amendment is moved, you will need unanimous consent to withdraw it.

During debate on an amendment, members are permitted to move subamendments. These subamendments must be submitted in writing. They do not require the approval of the mover of the amendment. Only one subamendment may be considered at a time. When a subamendment is moved to an amendment, it is voted on first. Then another subamendment may be moved, or the committee may consider the main amendment and vote on it.

Once every clause has been voted on, the committee will vote on the title and the bill itself, and an order to reprint the bill may be required if amendments are adopted, so that the House has a proper copy for use at report stage.

Finally, the committee will have to order the chair to report the bill to the House, and that report contains only the text of any adopted amendments, as well as an indication of any deleted clauses.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Chair, on a point of order, you mentioned that you would be reporting the bill back to the House.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Absolutely.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Is that your intention? Will you be doing so during Routine Proceedings?

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Yes, this has always been the intention. The reason, Mr. Nater, that it was stated that any MP would is in case, during my reporting of the bill to the House—because, of course, I'm virtual—something electronic occurs and I'm unable to do so.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Okay. You'll be doing this during Routine Proceedings on Wednesday, then.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

It will depend on when we finish with the clause-by-clause, Mr. Nater. I don't know when that will be. Let's hope that it's going to be in time for Wednesday.

Now, if the committee has not completed its clause-by-clause consideration of the bill by 9 p.m. on June 14—and I want to repeat this, “by 9 p.m. on June 14, 2022”—all remaining amendments submitted to the committee shall be deemed moved and the chair shall put the question forthwith and successively without any further debate on all remaining clauses and amendments submitted to the committee, as well as each and every question necessary to dispose of the clause-by-clause consideration of the bill.

That's all very procedural, but I just wanted to make sure that everybody understood it. At 9 p.m. tonight, there's a hard stop for debate on any clauses.

With that having been said, if everyone is ready, I think we should begin clause-by-clause, again, pursuant to the order of reference of Thursday, May 12, 2022, on Bill C-11, an act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other acts.

Now, pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of clause 1, which is the short title, will be postponed, so we begin with clause 2.

(On clause 2)

Before me, I have clause 2. There is an amendment from the Conservatives, the first amendment. If that Conservative amendment is adopted, then we will move on to NDP-1, BQ-1, etc.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

On a point of order, Madam Chair, I think you meant to say there would be a conflict in the lines and we would not then deal with NDP-1, NDP-2 or Bloc-1 because there is a conflict in the line with CPC-1. If CPC-1 were adopted, we wouldn't move to—

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I think that's what I said, Mr. Housefather.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

No. That's why I wanted to mention it, Madam Chair. You said we would then move to.... I think what you were saying was actually that there would be a conflict.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Well, yes, because I thought that was inherent in what I said, but all right, I will explain: There will be a conflict.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

Thank you.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Now I think we are ready to begin. We will start, as I said, with clause 2. That would be the Conservative Party amendment, CPC-1.

Would the clerk read that amendment? Thank you.

I think you have it in front of you, but I have not found it yet. I don't have the actual wording of the amendments. Perhaps the clerk will read the wording of the amendments. I think I'm getting them now.

11:10 a.m.

Philippe Méla Legislative Clerk

Madam Chair, it's not required to read the amendments. Usually the person reading the amendments is the mover.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

All right.

I don't know who the mover is. I gather that it might be Mr. Nater.

John, will you read it?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Yes, Madam Chair.

CPC-1 deals with the definition of “community element”. This was brought to us in testimony as well as in briefs. I think it's fairly self-explanatory. I know that we have a number of amendments that deal with a similar situation. I don't think it's necessary for me to read the entire amendment, but if the committee wishes—

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I just want to check that everyone has a copy of your amendment. That's all.

Does everyone have copies of the amendments? I see hands going up.

Go ahead, Peter.

11:10 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I wanted to say that I am a big fan of Mr. Nater, as he knows. I've said this publicly in the House, but I will be voting against his amendment because I think NDP-1 is more reflective of what needs to happen to the bill.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much, Mr. Julian. I know of the deep and fond relationship between you and Mr. Nater.

We will begin. We will consider the amendment as being read. I will open the floor for debate on the bill.

Is there anyone else wishing to speak? No?

There is obviously opposition from the NDP.

Clerk, will you please go to the vote?

(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

We will proceed now to Mr. Julian's amendment to Bill C-11, clause 2.

I presume you all have that amendment in front of you.

Peter, did you wish to speak to it, read it or whatever?

11:10 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I believe you'll find it in order that I modified this amendment. If you don't feel it's appropriate that I do that, I believe Mr. Bittle will.

I would modify NDP-1 to say, “community element includes the element of the Canadian broadcasting system as part of which members of a community participate in the production of programs that are in a language used in the community, including a not-for-profit broadcasting undertaking that is managed by a board of directors elected by the community”.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I was not able to write down quickly what you just said, Peter.

I don't know if Mr. Méla got all that or if you sent him a piece of paper with that.

Did everyone get it? Does anyone want this read again?

Are there any hands up, Clerk? Everybody seems to have gotten it.

Thank you.

11:15 a.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Stephanie Bond

Mr. Champoux has his hand up.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Martin.

11:15 a.m.

Bloc

Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC

Madam Chair, I'd like to have the amendment to the amendment in writing before I decide.